Pork Butt

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The approach you mention is not all that uncommon in the Carolinas, Alex. I have had it PP cooked that way many times. Though "traditional" Carolina pork is not normally finished that way--it is left in the smoker till done--but, depending on who's doing the cooking, one approach might not be all that distinguishable from the other (and I have had not a few that were finished in a pot--but the cook would not admit to it!).

Finishing the meat this way is braising rather than 'boiling'--or at least it should be--meaning the oven temp is kept reasonably slow so as to allow the liquid in the pot to simmer, but not boil.

I'm not sure who in Charcuterie is responsible for the recipe you cite, Ruhlman or Polcyn, but it seems quite out of place to me in a book mostly devoted to charcuterie but, more important, one so devoted to instilling in the reader/cook a sense of the importance of allowing time to pass and not rushing the finish of the item (usually sausage) being prepared. The smoke-then-braise approach is used as a time saver, really, and nothing more. It is strange to me that they did not realize--and note this--when including the recipe in their book.
 
Kevin, I agree completely. I don't think it should actually boil but more of a slow roast to creat moist and tender meat. DO's are afterall basically a outdoor crockpot. What happened to the bark on what you have tried?

Randy
 
Well, the 'bark', such as it is, ends up as you'd expect. But bark on many a Carolina cook's butt is not the bark that many of us achieve when we smoke butts; it's different. Many cooks use no more than S & P, some just a simple rub applied lightly. In these cases most of the bark is just the caramelized meat surfaces augmented with what little spice might be applied and whatever sticks on from the mop (many mop). It is not the thicker bark-y bark many here prefer.
 
Randy,

I hope you try this techique, and report back your thoughts.

I'm just sort of thinking out loud here, so don't take anything I'm saying as evidence I know what I'm talking about. I'm too intrigued to just let it rest.

What if you were to really put the smoke to it, to the point that one might consider it being oversmoked. Maybe cooking a little hotter than usual to "toughen" up the bark that sets up. Think about guys cooking on an open pit, or at least a bbq pit in a more direct manner. Their food is going to be subject to a more severe "burned" nature than what we might be accustomed to. Fat dripping in the coals will add a different (not bad either) flavor element to this. This heavier flavored roast than what we're accustomed to making would then be the base to start from.

The roast, with the smokey bark, simmered in this vinegar concoction will eventually break down. The flavors washing off the roast are now then able to be dispersed throughout the inside of the roast. Could other aromatics be added during the simmer phase...onions, celery, not sure?

The more I think about this the more I really want to try it myself. Now I just need a free weekend to fire up the bullet and give it a go. Maybe no water pan, plenty of hickory chunks.
 
This did catch my attention too Joe. I am going to try it and see what happens, I have done enough DO cooking I know what works there so I am going to smoke a butt to 165 degrees and transfer into a DO and simmer at about 400 degrees until the meat gets to 200 just like I would finish the butt on the WSM and see what happens. Feel free to pass along any suggestions and I will try it. I am going with the 1/2 white vinegar and 1/2 water with some red pepper flakes jsut like mentioned above unless I get some better ideas.

Randy
 
Randy - What volume of liquid are you going to use? I'd probably go with less versus more. Does the recipe call out an amount? I didn't see it in my brief scan.

Jim
 
Jim, I was thinking of about half covered in the DO. Maybe like a cup of each, water and vinegar. I am just guessing at this compared to cooking a beef roast or something else that I have done in the past, I usually place the meat on a trinket to keep off the bottom of the DO and then cover about half the meat with liquid. I will get photos while I am doing this as well.

Randy
 
Randy,

I'm not a DO cooker. I've tried, always been pleased with the results, but for some reason, camping makes just about all food taste good.

Half covering one roast w/ liquid seems like it'd be a lot to me...2 cups seems a lot, just a hunch on my part, not experienced based. Maybe for two butts. After I was happy with the doneness of the meat, I'd shred it right in the DO, and reapply heat, making sure th crack the lid a bit to let steam escape and hopefully reduce some of the liquid in there. My mind keeps circling back to some Jerk-like spices to get in there somehow.

Are you planning to put the DO in the bullet to cook, I've done that an been very pleased.
 
Joe,
2 cups may be to much but from experience I think it should be about half covered and let the flavors of the liquid absorb into the meat.

A DO is basically a outdoor crock pot so that is how I am going to approach it. I planned to smoke it in the WSM until 160 or so and transfer to the DO and take out at 195 - 200 and wrap in foil to rest a bit just like we would if cooked completely in the WSM. After a rest unwrap and pull just like we normally would. It will be good I think just alot more mushy and juicy than what we are used to. If I were to add the taters,carrots,celery etc., we would have a pork roast to slice and serve but I am going to try just like above and serve like regular pulled BBQ I think. There are endless possiblities of recipes that would be great out of a DO using a butt, but it would not turn out to be pulled pork.

I have a DO table that I use and I use charcoal with it. 6 or 7 coals on the bottom and 18 - 20 coals on the top will produce about 400 degrees inside the DO. I use kingsford briquettes for this as they seem to be more consistent heat than cheaper brands I have tried.

Randy
 
Thanks for reply, guys!
I am a bit surprised that my question generated this much interest. Here is the recipe from the Charcutterie book:

1. sprinkle the pork shoulder evenly with salt and then pepper
2. hot smoke to 93F for about three hours
3. transfer the pork to a braising vessel with a lid (DO), and add 1/2 cup water. Cover tightly and set in the oven. Turn the oven to a 250F and cook untill the meat shred easily, about 4 hours.
4. Shred the meat in the pot. Add the barbecue sauce, stirring till the meat is evenly coated with the sauce.

Best of luck. I am very interested how it will come out.

Alex
 
If you braise it in a dutch oven in a water/vinegar mixture, I doubt you will be able to foil it when you are done. I would expect it to fall apart entirely if you tried to pick it up.
 
I agree.

I also think 400 is too high if braising is what you want to do; 250 is best. You can add a little liquid, like the 1/2 c in the recipe Alex just mentioned, or you can use 2 c, as called for at the link Alex posted on the previous page, or any other amount you'd prefer. When 'done', the meat certainly will fall apart, no resting really needed. You can simply shred the meat in the pot and mix it with whatever liquid was used, or do the same, adding whatever sauce or ingredient additions you'd like.

A trivet in a DO is a good idea, btw. I am surprised how many DO-oriented recipes do not mention one, but they are good for circulation under the meat (or other items), especially if the pot is sitting on direct heat.
 
OK Guys here we go.

It turned out almost great, wife and kids loved it and I thought it was differnet but still good. It really did compare to our way of doing a but with the exceptions of:

Lost the bark,

alot more tender, which was not a bad thing, just not competition pork BBQ,

had way more of a vinegar taste, again not a bad thing

done in about 7 hours using the high heat method on the WSM

Started with a 8 lb'er trimmed and rubbed Sat night, wrapped in saran wrap and chilled all night just like I always do.

Fired the WSM Sunday morn, added the butt at 8:00a.m. with grates temps of 300, left for about 4 hours assuming it would be ok, got back home at 12:15 with grate temps of 330 and internal temps of 170. Prepared DO with a trivet and a bakers rack on top of that #12 DO. Added 1 cup apple cider vinegar, 1 cup water and 1/8 cup red pepper flakes. That had about the bottom 2 inches of the butt in the liquid. Placed DO on the coals and added coals to the top. Simmered at 230 -250 inside the DO for about 2 hours until internal temps were at 200 or so. Temps ranged from 199 to 208 so maybe a bit overdone. I decided there was to much liquid left in the DO so I carefully pulled it out on the bakers rack and wrapped in foil and a cooler until ready to eat about 6:00pm. Pulled and ate almost every ounce the only scraps I discarded was the bone which is a little different than other butts. The fat rendering process done something differnet in the DO because there was none at all.

Overall it was a great experiment and we had a great meal out of it. It was different than what we normally eat but a change of pace was good. The extra vinegar taste I guess is where the NC style comes from.

I am going to try this again at different temps and trnasfer to the DO sooner, would have this time had I been home.

Now if I can get my photos loaded in here, still having trouble with that!!!
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Randy
 
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ok I tried,,, I am sorry for the photos, jsut not smart enough to figure it out I guess, should get my 7 year old to help me huh?

Would someone place change this the way it needs to be and Thank You in advance.

Randy
 
Randy - thanks for posting the pix and results. It'll be several weeks before I give it a whirl, but I plan on it. It'll be interesting to see how well receieved it is by my family. Again thanks. This proved to be one of the more interesting strings I've seen in awhile, and with closure to it (pix and results), it ranks in my top 10 thats for sure.
 
Joe, I was suprised by how well it turned out myself. It was nice to change things up a little. I would not turn this type of BBQ in at comps as it had to much of a vinegar taste but it turned out good. My family reccommeded it very much. But they are used to my DO meals anyway, I have done complete meals all in a DO before including bread and dessert. I had 5 DO's all cooking at one time last summer, that was tricky. I had them stacked 3 high at one time.

Thanks!!

Randy
 
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