NG/LP Valve & Orifice difference Genesis x000


 
Josh Dekubber

Josh Dekubber

TVWBB Gold Member
So I just started taking apart and cleaning natural gas valves that I'm bringing to Arizona to convert my Genesis Junior from LP to NG.

I wanted to know the difference so I'm also taking apart an LP valve to compare. The differences are very minor. As I read in my research natural gas valves and orifices are generally bigger. That is what I'm finding but just barely bigger. I'm going to take apart another NG manifold/valves to compare and make sure. I'll be traveling with these from Washington to Arizona so I want to make sure that I get it right. I haven't cleaned them yet. I just started taking them apart and comparing.

If you have any experience with these please leave me a comment

LP on the left
NG on the right

20241118_121123~2.jpg20241118_120929~2.jpg
 
Josh Dekubber said:
So I just started taking apart and cleaning natural gas valves that I'm bringing to Arizona to convert my Genesis Junior from LP to NG.

I wanted to know the difference so I'm also taking apart an LP valve to compare. The differences are very minor. As I read in my research natural gas valves and orifices are generally bigger. That is what I'm finding but just barely bigger. I'm going to take apart another NG manifold/valves to compare and make sure. I'll be traveling with these from Washington to Arizona so I want to make sure that I get it right. I haven't cleaned them yet. I just started taking them apart and comparing.

If you have any experience with these please leave me a comment

LP on the left
NG on the right

View attachment 103951View attachment 103952
Click to expand...
The NG are much bigger. At least twice as big.
 
BPratt said:
The NG are much bigger. At least twice as big.
Click to expand...
I've taken apart two natural gas manifolds/Valves and one propane manifold / valves. Would you say the difference in my pictures is not enough and they are not different?

I guess the difference could be twice the size now that I'm looking at the picture again
 
LPG has more energy than NG and it is delivered to the valve at a higher pressure.

Weber x000 NG grills are built for 7 inches water column of pressure
Weber x000 LPG grills are set for 11 inches water column of pressure

More NG needs to flow than LPG to produce the same heat output.

Eventually the orifice is the limiter, but at lower temps it is the valve design.
 
DanHoo said:
LPG has more energy than NG and it is delivered to the valve at a higher pressure.

Weber x000 NG grills are built for 7 inches water column of pressure
Weber x000 LPG grills are set for 11 inches water column of pressure

More NG needs to flow than LPG to produce the same heat output.

Eventually the orifice is the limiter, but at lower temps it is the valve design.
Click to expand...
That all makes sense 100% would you say I'm on the right track?
 
Josh Dekubber said:
I've taken apart two natural gas manifolds/Valves and one propane manifold / valves. Would you say the difference in my pictures is not enough and they are not different?

I guess the difference could be twice the size
Click to expand...
If you look at the pictures on a large monitor you can see the difference.

If you look closely at the valve body, it is not only the size of the hole, but the depth of the channel that is different, and the depth varies..
 
Josh Dekubber said:
That all makes sense 100% would you say I'm on the right track?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where this track is leading you to.

Did you mix them up and are you trying to determine what belongs to what?

If that's the case I think we have a thread on that somewhere.

If you are asking if they are different, they sure look different to me and I'm pretty sure the x000 valves are well documented on the differences.

Personally, I have only taken apart E330 valves. I'll post a link to it in a moment.

for x000 valves, I've am very careful to mark and NG manifolds conspicuously, and I store them with an NG hose. I may only have one left as I've sold a few.
 
some references:

Chris Allingham

Thread 'HOW TO: Gas Conversion'

Over the past few years, we have seen more and more people refurbishing vintage Weber gas grills, and along with this comes an increasing number of questions about gas conversion between liquid propane (LP) and natural gas (NG). In the old days, Weber would sell you the parts needed to convert an LP grill to NG or vice versa. Today, Weber is very clear that they don't want customers doing gas conversions, nor do they want you moving grills between countries and attempting to adapt from one country's gas standard to another. When done wrong, these modifications can damage the grill or...

And this was my hands-on comparison of E330 NG vs LPG

DanHoo

Thread 'E330 NG and LP manifold and valve side by side comparison'

I finally found an original 2016 Genesis E330 LP manifold for a fair price. AR date code.

Last year I converted my E330 NG to LP using orifices and a regulator as I could not find a manifold in stock anywhere. It is also a 2016 AR date code.

I have the original NG orifices and hose from my E330NG. I had given them away but they were never used so I have them once again.

My plan is to compare the two manifolds and valves and orifices side by side including the internals.

Notes:

1. There is already an excellent post documenting valve differences. There is a great deal of...
  • Like
 
DanHoo said:
I'm not sure where this track is leading you to.

Did you mix them up and are you trying to determine what belongs to what?

If that's the case I think we have a thread on that somewhere.

If you are asking if they are different, they sure look different to me and I'm pretty sure the x000 valves are well documented on the differences.

Personally, I have only taken apart E330 valves. I'll post a link to it in a moment.

for x000 valves, I've am very careful to mark and NG manifolds conspicuously, and I store them with an NG hose. I may only have one left as I've sold a few.
Click to expand...
I haven't mixed anything up. I'm just trying to analyze and learn the difference. I'm taking these from Washington to Arizona to change my Genesis Junior from propane to Natural Gas.
 
DanHoo said:
some references:

Chris Allingham

Thread 'HOW TO: Gas Conversion'

Over the past few years, we have seen more and more people refurbishing vintage Weber gas grills, and along with this comes an increasing number of questions about gas conversion between liquid propane (LP) and natural gas (NG). In the old days, Weber would sell you the parts needed to convert an LP grill to NG or vice versa. Today, Weber is very clear that they don't want customers doing gas conversions, nor do they want you moving grills between countries and attempting to adapt from one country's gas standard to another. When done wrong, these modifications can damage the grill or...

And this was my hands-on comparison of E330 NG vs LPG

DanHoo

Thread 'E330 NG and LP manifold and valve side by side comparison'

I finally found an original 2016 Genesis E330 LP manifold for a fair price. AR date code.

Last year I converted my E330 NG to LP using orifices and a regulator as I could not find a manifold in stock anywhere. It is also a 2016 AR date code.

I have the original NG orifices and hose from my E330NG. I had given them away but they were never used so I have them once again.

My plan is to compare the two manifolds and valves and orifices side by side including the internals.

Notes:

1. There is already an excellent post documenting valve differences. There is a great deal of...
  • Like
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I was looking for Dan thank you very much!!!

Everything looks good I'm on the right track. I just didn't want to show up to Arizona with what I thought was NG and actually have LP
 
Josh Dekubber said:
I've taken apart two natural gas manifolds/Valves and one propane manifold / valves. Would you say the difference in my pictures is not enough and they are not different?

I guess the difference could be twice the size now that I'm looking at the picture again
Click to expand...
Hi Josh, the LP is on the left in your pictures. NG on the right.

After you look at a few the difference becomes obvious
 
Here is the issue. On many Weber grills they use distinct valve spools based on the intended fuel. They way the valves work is this. The main metering orifice does basically nothing at less than "full throttle". All the metering for anything from low until you get to full is done by the spool itself. All the main orifice does is limit max flow. You could almost run it without the main orifice if you only did it on low (please do not try this it's for illustration ONLY).
Where the issue comes in with the shysters on FleaBay selling "conversion kits" is the sell you main metering orifices ONLY. So if you have an LP grill and you install NG orifices and send it the proper flow and pressure it will operate just fine. At high ONLY. When you start cutting back to medium or low, you can get flame outs because not enough gas is flowing to keep the burners lit. Flameouts can be and IMO are VERY dangerous. Because you have no flame but gas is still flowing and collecting under the hood. Now if you have say one burner go out but more than one are lit, you can get a pretty good fireball in there. Will it blow your grill off the deck? No it will not. But, it CAN make a pretty good "woomph" if you should open the lid in that condition. Or it could build up and blow the lid open.
Now take the opposite. You have a NG grill but put LP orifices on it. This is simply "inconvenient". Because you will never get the output down to a normal "low or medium" level. But, at least it's not going to be a safety issue.
To my knowledge Weber is the only company who makes their grills this way. IDK why, but they're a royal PIA IMO. Because of it. About every other mfgr I know of makes a simple kit to convert between fuels. Some are so simple they only need one orifice change.
Weber could easily make conversions like this they choose not to
 
Josh, in the future, if you don't have both valves to compare, you can tell if it is NG vs LP by finding a 3/64" drill bit. If it fits into the orifice, it is a NG orifice/valve. If it doesn't, then you are holding an LP orifice/valve.
 
Bruce said:
Josh, in the future, if you don't have both valves to compare, you can tell if it is NG vs LP by finding a 3/64" drill bit. If it fits into the orifice, it is a NG orifice/valve. If it doesn't, then you are holding an LP orifice/valve.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip Bruce I appreciate it
 
LMichaels said:
Here is the issue. On many Weber grills they use distinct valve spools based on the intended fuel. They way the valves work is this. The main metering orifice does basically nothing at less than "full throttle". All the metering for anything from low until you get to full is done by the spool itself. All the main orifice does is limit max flow. You could almost run it without the main orifice if you only did it on low (please do not try this it's for illustration ONLY).
Where the issue comes in with the shysters on FleaBay selling "conversion kits" is the sell you main metering orifices ONLY. So if you have an LP grill and you install NG orifices and send it the proper flow and pressure it will operate just fine. At high ONLY. When you start cutting back to medium or low, you can get flame outs because not enough gas is flowing to keep the burners lit. Flameouts can be and IMO are VERY dangerous. Because you have no flame but gas is still flowing and collecting under the hood. Now if you have say one burner go out but more than one are lit, you can get a pretty good fireball in there. Will it blow your grill off the deck? No it will not. But, it CAN make a pretty good "woomph" if you should open the lid in that condition. Or it could build up and blow the lid open.
Now take the opposite. You have a NG grill but put LP orifices on it. This is simply "inconvenient". Because you will never get the output down to a normal "low or medium" level. But, at least it's not going to be a safety issue.
To my knowledge Weber is the only company who makes their grills this way. IDK why, but they're a royal PIA IMO. Because of it. About every other mfgr I know of makes a simple kit to convert between fuels. Some are so simple they only need one orifice change.
Weber could easily make conversions like this they choose not to
Click to expand...
I'm okay with it as long as I know what I'm doing. So I can do the job right and learn and grow my knowledge and experience.
 
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