My wsm's tellin' me not to use water in the pan anymore?

[Glenn W]

I bet it wouldn't have gone over 275

Your right, mine is hard pressed to get above 300 with all vents 100%.

 

[Dave Russell]

Originally posted by Glenn W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I bet it wouldn't have gone over 275

Your right, mine is hard pressed to get above 300 with all vents 100%. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd have to use lump, unless I turned the door upside down and cracked it. In my cooker w/ Stubbs or K, I'm doing good to get 275 if the door is shut, and it'll take a while.

 

[Doug Wade]

It's really up to you. If the vents are too far open the water does give you some cheap insurance... until it all boils away and then you *really* have a spike on your hands. The water can actually mask a problem that'll bite you in the butt in a few hours.

Personally I've taken to just setting the alarm for about 6 hours into the cook, and just double checking everything - temps, if I'm using water is the level OK, I poke at the coals a bit and knock off any ash and make sure there's some plausible amount of fuel in there. Just takes a few minutes, then back to bed, I hardly remember doing it.

 

[Chad C]

Originally posted by Glenn W:
Sorry it didn't work for you. I set my bottom vents around 20% when the temp is 200 and it runs 225-250 average with RO Lump for 12hrs+. Never have to stir or tap.

Glen W - is this the case for your 18" and 22"? My 22"'s bottom vents have to be all the way, or almost all the way, shut to get those kind of consistent & low temps.

 

[Glenn W]

Chad yes is the answer but with a hitch. If you try this on the big boy and you don't have a lot of meat on it go conservetive on the amount of lit, like 10-15 no more than 20 and catch at 180-200. At this point I set my bottom vents at 10-20% and watch for an hour. If you units are not air tight it will be almost impossible.

 

[Dave Ashcroft]

I've read through all conversation with intrest and I believe you guys have just shown the difference between using lump vs charcoal. I've allways used water to control temp with all vents open. I also always use lump in wsm and save the charcoal for the performer. I'm going to try my next cook without water to see how eratic the wsm 's temps act up. My guess is that I will be adjusting the vents towards closed more often. I'm smoking some butts for the holidays. Anyway very intresting reading.

 

[Dave Russell]

Originally posted by Dave Ashcroft:
I've read through all conversation with intrest and I believe you guys have just shown the difference between using lump vs charcoal.

I've done plenty of long cooks w/ lump, using the MM in my old UDS, and in my wsm for the first few cooks. I just got tired of shaking and packing it all in and still having to refuel sometimes, preferring the consistancy of briquettes. (FYI, I really haven't noticed any difference in flavor. I think the flavor is in the wood.)

I used K for this overnight "dry pan" cook as it's supposed to burn slower and more consistant than lump, or other briquettes, for that matter. Actually though, I think that Stubbs has a more consistant burn since it doesn't have the ash issues K does. Another one that's similiar is Royal Oak briquettes, but I've only used once or twice a good while back.

 

[Dave Russell]

Well, here we go again....but with a full ECB water pan. I'm only cooking two pork butts tonight, and we'll see how it goes. I put 'em on at a few minutes before 10:00pm, and fifteen minutes later, my Maverick is reading 235 at the vent, with all the bottom vents set at 50% open. I anticipate that the temp will rise a little in the next couple hours as the meat loses it's chill, but the Maverick should wake me up if it reaches 260. (This is for supper tomorrow night, not lunch.)

I'll try to to post how it went tomorrow sometime.

 

[Dave Russell]

I learned that the torch doesn't work as good with the way I've been placing my wood chunks, which is four buried around the sides, and the tallest one in the middle, which will start smoking first, or in this case, FLAMING

(So much for good smoke.

The thing I DON'T like about the water pan is I can't tell what my smoke is really like with all that steam coming out of the vent, not without smelling it, at least.)

I was kind of surprised how quick the cooker came up to temp last night, but didn't think the hickory chunk in the middle had much to do with it as the temp came down as soon as I put the lid on. Well, strangely enough, about two and a half hours into the cook, the Maverick woke me up to LOW temps, not high temps. I opened them up a bit, and a little while later, it seemed that some briquettes all of a sudden lit and got temps back up where I wanted them. No problems after that, and I got up this morning a little before six and topped off the water pan and shut the vents back some.

I guess Harry Soo is on to something with placing the wood around the sides, and I believe I've read where Kevin Kruger wrote that he uses smaller wood chunks that won't contribute so much btu's. I might just go back to the chimney, though. I wasn't really having any problems other than getting the temp up in the beginning, and I'm still sold that water in the pan is the way to go if you're gonna try to cook in the 225-250(vent) zone overnight ....better than just a foiled pan, at least. I'm tempted to try sand as a heat sink, but I know that once it's hot, it's hot.

 

[John Noble]

Well, my two cents would be that the water pan is not needed, but only if a few other things are safely in place.

I use lump instead of K, not because I don't like K, but just to reduce ash buildup.

I get the lump really, thoroughly going, in a chimney, before adding it MM. I"m going to crank down the vents to minimize temp, as I don't have water to do it for me. So I better be sure that fire won't go out.

I let the meat come up to room temperature before putting in. Again, I don't have the safety backup of a water bowl, so I don't want big fluctuations, like rapid cooldown from a cold meat, which again could risk putting fire out.

I leave top fully open and each one of the bottom three vents, only a quarter open. I also have a super tight door closure.

So basically, I am replacing the heat control effect of the water bowl, with the heat control effect of really minimal air entry. That's why I'm so careful about not doing anything to drop the temp and put the fire out.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't just throw out the water bowl without paying attention to how the system is going to run now.

It's like for years, you have kept your car from exceeding the speed limit by keeping the emerg brake slightly on. I think it's better to remove the emerg brake, as you're wasting gas and you're losing touch with the gas pedal. But with that emerg brake gone, you now really have to pay attention to that gas pedal. You just need a touch of gas now, or you'll be speeding and you'll hear sirens and bad news pretty quick.

 

[Dave Russell]

Originally posted by John Noble:
Well, my two cents would be that the water pan is not needed, but only if a few other things are safely in place.

I use lump instead of K, not because I don't like K, but just to reduce ash buildup.

I get the lump really, thoroughly going, in a chimney, before adding it MM. I"m going to crank down the vents to minimize temp, as I don't have water to do it for me. So I better be sure that fire won't go out.

I let the meat come up to room temperature before putting in. Again, I don't have the safety backup of a water bowl, so I don't want big fluctuations, like rapid cooldown from a cold meat, which again could risk putting fire out.

I leave top fully open and each one of the bottom three vents, only a quarter open. I also have a super tight door closure.

So basically, I am replacing the heat control effect of the water bowl, with the heat control effect of really minimal air entry. That's why I'm so careful about not doing anything to drop the temp and put the fire out.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't just throw out the water bowl without paying attention to how the system is going to run now.

It's like for years, you have kept your car from exceeding the speed limit by keeping the emerg brake slightly on. I think it's better to remove the emerg brake, as you're wasting gas and you're losing touch with the gas pedal. But with that emerg brake gone, you now really have to pay attention to that gas pedal. You just need a touch of gas now, or you'll be speeding and you'll hear sirens and bad news pretty quick.

John, thanks for the insights. I used the MM in my UDS long before getting my wsm, so I know how important minimal venting is, and in the UDS, vent settings are even more critical than with the wsm, especially if cooking direct.

After learning from experience that K blue would tend to suffocate on it's own ash when burning at low-n-slow temps, I used RO lump for probably 90% of my cooks on the drum. The problem was that unless I was awake to shut the vent back some a few hours into the cook, temp spikes were unavoidable since the temp of the meat (the ONLY heatsink in my UDS) continued to climb. My point is that the wsm will have the same issue with holding temps with no heat sink, just not as much since we're not cooking direct and we have a foiled pan in place.

What to use besides water? Well, I've not tested sand or the clay pot base yet, but my preferred water pan (ECB charcoal pan) nests perfectly inside my OE Weber water pan for a little more mass, with an air gap between the bowls of the two, although the rims are flush with each other, not spaced and connected with hardware like the Piedmont pan. I'll probably add a little sand to the Brinkman (top) pan and see how that works next time. Sure, if temps spike, the sand takes a while to cool off, but a plate steel offset has the same problem. If you keep the lid on and the vents mostly shut and you shouldn't have such a problem, though.

Here's a sort of unrelated tip that I first picked up on from something Kevin Kruger has mentioned about large wood chunks and high btu's. As to checking and tending the meat at the end of the cook, I now try not to have anything but a couple of small fruitwood chunks on the bottom of the charcoal ring. I was cooking a brisket last week with the vents wide open and couldn't believe how much my two large chunks of oak were GLOWING when I stirred the coals toward the end of the cook. Since I foiled the brisket, the added BTU's were a GOOD thing, and the temp spiked up over 300, without cracking the door. I wouldn't have wanted that if I was glazing a few racks of ribs or trying to get four pork butts pulled at the right time, though.

 

[John Noble]

Yeah, Dave, I agree about the wood and the heat.

I"m not that sure that the clay saucer system is such a great heat sink. Now, I do use that system. I place a pizza stone as a heat shield, and on top of the pizza stone, sits a wide, thick ceramic pot base.

But I think it's only good as a flame shield, and a drip catcher. Yes, the stone will act as a heat sink, but only temporarily. Once it's heated up, it will simply be whatever ambient temperature is happening inside the wsm. Sure, for two hours it will absorb energy, but once it's full, it's full. It's not throwing away energy, like evaporating water does.

And in fact, a heat sink that is temporary(whether stone or meat) is a bad thing, as it deceives one into thinking that the vent settings are correct, when in fact they are too open. A temporary heat sink will reach ambient temperature and stop acting as a heat sink, when you're asleep. Only then will the overly open vent settings be revealed.

So I think we're back to air restriction again.

So I have to become proficient at air restriction. So to do this, I try to keep all other factors identical. Same charcoal, same everything. Then I can learn what lower vent setting will do the job.

And it's amazing how little air is needed.

Once I know for sure, I have the confidence to set the vents and leave them. Yes, the temps will seem a bit low at first, but I know the ceramics and the cool meat will absorb temp and have a cooling effect, but not for long. With faith, I keep my hands off the vents. Those temporary sinks will heat up and the machine will go up to 230F and lock there for as long as I want.

 

[John Noble]

I was posting before about having the faith to leave the vents alone. I believe that the best wsm system consists of a man and a dog.

The man's sole job is to feed the dog.

The dog's job is to prevent the man from fiddling with the wsm.

 

[JSMcdowell]

It's like for years, you have kept your car from exceeding the speed limit by keeping the emerg brake slightly on. I think it's better to remove the emerg brake, as you're wasting gas and you're losing touch with the gas pedal. But with that emerg brake gone, you now really have to pay attention to that gas pedal. You just need a touch of gas now, or you'll be speeding and you'll hear sirens and bad news pretty quick.

Well said.