MSG, to use or not to use ?

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Hi,
I just bought my WSM today and I am planning ribs for tomorrow. I'm trying to stick to the "Ribs of the Universe 1996" recipe to the letter, but 2 things.

One, I did not find the sourwood honey. This is minor, I think, I bought the most expensive honey <happens to be from Australia and bees from the rain forests and I'm not about to wait a week to start cooking while I order the specified honey /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The most important concern for me in trying to stick to the recipe, is that the dry rub calls for some MSG. I've been told by a few people that it is bad for you and that some people are severely allergic to it. My question is: should I substitute? If so, what? And how will this affect this recipe, if at all ?

I also welcome any other suggestions for the pure rookie that I am and freely admit !

Thanks !

Marc
 
Marc,
In my opinion msg is a flavor enhancer and the percentage of people having a allergic reaction is very small.I don't think you will lose that much of the flavor of the rub if you left it out.I some times use msg in rubs.Me personally I can't tell a difference with it or without it.I think msg just intensifies the flavors of the rub when they hit the palette.As far as a substitute for msg I don't think there is one.If I'm wrong on this someone please correct me.
Willy T.
 
The use of "Accent" or MSG is generally scorned in cooking circles. It is best known for its use by bad Chinese restaurants.

Similar amino acids are found in naturally occuring food products like soy sauce. Scientists are not completely sure why it works as a flavor enhancer, but the suspicion is that the chemical stimulates nerve receptors in the tongue in some fashion.

I doubt that it would do any lasting harm nor effect the taste of ribs in any meaningful way, but some people are mildly allergic to it (headaches, etc) depending on the dosage and many people like to avoid it. For example, it is not uncommon for better Chinese restaurants to print "NO MSG" on their menus these days.

The FDA has done numerous studies and concluded that MSG presents no particular health risk to most people in the kind of levels contained in typical foods, but they do require MSG labeling on prepared foods.
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/msg.html

Better, I think, to achieve flavor through good ingredients, effective seasoning, and appropriate cooking techniques. I don't think anyone will complain about your ribs if you leave out the MSG.

BTW, just as a side note: don't feel like you have to be a slave to every detail of a recipe for a rub or a sauce. There are as many variations on rub mixtures as there are cooks in the world. For example, if you have plain old iodized table salt, don't feel like you have to make a special trip to the store. Big deal.

That particular rub is primarily ancho chile based (good chili powder mostly ancho chile and cumin, although the grocery store stuff probably has a high percentage of less expensive chiles like paprika). I happen to think ancho/cumin is a very nice flavor for bar-b-q as well as being THE dominant seasoning flavor in "Southwestern" cuisine. I make my own chili powder and my own rub using freshly ground ancho chiles as the base.

My standard rub (which I stole from some bar-b-q book or another) has a good deal less sugar and salt, but some additional spices like thyme, allspice, cayenne, cinammon, sage, and mace. There are probably a gazillion other variations in between that will surely produce outstanding ribs.

Experiment. Rubs are very forgiving. So are bar-b-q sauces. My favorite is a fairly simple thin, puckery middle-Georgia style table sauce that is mostly cider vinegar, ketchup, and black pepper. I recently started adding a canned chipotle pepper to the sauce while it simmers and it definitely "kicked it up a notch" in depth of smoky flavor and interesting heat. My point is that my version has changed from the original recipe (less black pepper, more sugar, chipotle chile, a litle bit of my rub to tie the seasonings together, etc.). The experimenting is half the fun.

Heck, I went to make it the other day and we were out of ketchup, so I used mustard instead and ended up with the best South Carolina style sauce I've ever made (in many, many attempts).
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willy T.:
[qb]Marc,
In my opinion msg is a flavor enhancer and the percentage of people having a allergic reaction is very small.I don't think you will lose that much of the flavor of the rub if you left it out.I some times use msg in rubs.Me personally I can't tell a difference with it or without it.I think msg just intensifies the flavors of the rub when they hit the palette.As far as a substitute for msg I don't think there is one.If I'm wrong on this someone please correct me.
Willy T.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Willy,

I'm going to leave it out and I'll let you know how it goes...

Cheers !
/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Webb Collings:
[qb]The use of "Accent" or MSG is generally scorned in cooking circles. It is best known for its use by bad Chinese restaurants.

Similar amino acids are found in naturally occuring food products like soy sauce. Scientists are not completely sure why it works as a flavor enhancer, but the suspicion is that the chemical stimulates nerve receptors in the tongue in some fashion.

I doubt that it would do any lasting harm nor effect the taste of ribs in any meaningful way, but some people are mildly allergic to it (headaches, etc) depending on the dosage and many people like to avoid it. For example, it is not uncommon for better Chinese restaurants to print "NO MSG" on their menus these days.

The FDA has done numerous studies and concluded that MSG presents no particular health risk to most people in the kind of levels contained in typical foods, but they do require MSG labeling on prepared foods.
http://www.fda.gov/opacom/backgrounders/msg.html

Better, I think, to achieve flavor through good ingredients, effective seasoning, and appropriate cooking techniques. I don't think anyone will complain about your ribs if you leave out the MSG.

BTW, just as a side note: don't feel like you have to be a slave to every detail of a recipe for a rub or a sauce. There are as many variations on rub mixtures as there are cooks in the world. For example, if you have plain old iodized table salt, don't feel like you have to make a special trip to the store. Big deal.

That particular rub is primarily ancho chile based (good chili powder mostly ancho chile and cumin, although the grocery store stuff probably has a high percentage of less expensive chiles like paprika). I happen to think ancho/cumin is a very nice flavor for bar-b-q as well as being THE dominant seasoning flavor in "Southwestern" cuisine. I make my own chili powder and my own rub using freshly ground ancho chiles as the base.

My standard rub (which I stole from some bar-b-q book or another) has a good deal less sugar and salt, but some additional spices like thyme, allspice, cayenne, cinammon, sage, and mace. There are probably a gazillion other variations in between that will surely produce outstanding ribs.

Experiment. Rubs are very forgiving. So are bar-b-q sauces. My favorite is a fairly simple thin, puckery middle-Georgia style table sauce that is mostly cider vinegar, ketchup, and black pepper. I recently started adding a canned chipotle pepper to the sauce while it simmers and it definitely "kicked it up a notch" in depth of smoky flavor and interesting heat. My point is that my version has changed from the original recipe (less black pepper, more sugar, chipotle chile, a litle bit of my rub to tie the seasonings together, etc.). The experimenting is half the fun.

Heck, I went to make it the other day and we were out of ketchup, so I used mustard instead and ended up with the best South Carolina style sauce I've ever made (in many, many attempts).

[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: Webb Collings ][/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Webb,

I figured as much about the experimenting side of things, nice of you to confirm. I had to start somewhere as a benchmark, and this is the recipe that I chose. My Dad always taught me to learn from other people's mistakes; I'm also trying to learn from other people's successes. This is a relatively costly hobby both in time, and ingredients, hence all the rookie questions.

I'm leaving out the MSG and I will let you know how it goes.

For the record, I think this web site is fantastic and I'm very glad I bought the Bullet and can enjoy interfacing and learning from you fine people.

I hope to be qualified enough one day to contribute...

Cheers !

Marc
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Currie:
[qb]For the record, I think this web site is fantastic... [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me, too. I particularly think the section on cooking Chris has put together is just outstanding.
 
Hi Marc,

I sometimes use MSG in my barbecue rubs because it "zips up" the flavor a bit.

I don't know if MSG is "generally scorned in cooking circles", but it is found in a number of commercial barbecue sauces and rubs and is sometimes specified in rub recipes. MSG is also found in some prepared foods in your grocery store.

If I were you, I would not be afraid to give MSG a try. If you're interested in the effect it has on barbecue, you can do a simple taste test. Mix up a batch of BRITU rub without the MSG, split the rub into two batches, add 1/2 the suggested MSG to one batch, then apply both versions to some ribs and cook them up. See if you can taste any difference.

If you're trying BRITU for the first time, I recommend that you stick to the recipe as closely as you can. Even if you can't get the sourwood honey, at least make the rub as directed.

It's also important to point out that BRITU ribs are as much a process as they are a rub recipe. The description of how to prepare the ribs, when to apply the rub, how long to let them sit at room temp, the amount and type of smoke wood used, the two different cooking temperatures, when to apply the sauce--these are all just as important as the rub itself.

Give the recipe a try as-is and decide for yourself. Some people love 'em, some people don't. But at least give them a try as specified in the recipe, then you can modify to your heart's content or try something completely different.

Have fun,
Chris
 
A cometitor would consider using MSG when they are cooking in an area where a larger portion of the population smokes. MSG and salt will increase your scores under those conditions.
Jim
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]Hi Marc,

I sometimes use MSG in my barbecue rubs because it "zips up" the flavor a bit.

I don't know if MSG is "generally scorned in cooking circles", but it is found in a number of commercial barbecue sauces and rubs and is sometimes specified in rub recipes. MSG is also found in some prepared foods in your grocery store.

If I were you, I would not be afraid to give MSG a try. If you're interested in the effect it has on barbecue, you can do a simple taste test. Mix up a batch of BRITU rub without the MSG, split the rub into two batches, add 1/2 the suggested MSG to one batch, then apply both versions to some ribs and cook them up. See if you can taste any difference.

If you're trying BRITU for the first time, I recommend that you stick to the recipe as closely as you can. Even if you can't get the sourwood honey, at least make the rub as directed.

It's also important to point out that BRITU ribs are as much a process as they are a rub recipe. The description of how to prepare the ribs, when to apply the rub, how long to let them sit at room temp, the amount and type of smoke wood used, the two different cooking temperatures, when to apply the sauce--these are all just as important as the rub itself.

Give the recipe a try as-is and decide for yourself. Some people love 'em, some people don't. But at least give them a try as specified in the recipe, then you can modify to your heart's content or try something completely different.

Have fun,
Chris

[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: Chris Allingham ][/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ooops, sent a blank reply, anyway...

Chris thank you for your advice. My rub is already mixed and I don't have any MSG. Somehow I missed it on my list of ingredients. But after calling my neighbors to see if I could borrow some, and all 3 telling me that it is bad for you and that one was allergic to it, I'm going to leave it out this time.

Let the chips fall where they may. If I made a mistake, I'll learn. I'm going with my best educated gut on this one. I do appreciate your reply and I will let you know how the ribs turn out. as far as the time line and everything else, I am following the recipe to the letter.

I'll let you know Chris... I promise !

I hope the Raiders and 49ers do well also !

Thanks again,

Marc
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]I don't know if MSG is "generally scorned in cooking circles...[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's put it this way. www.foodtv.com has a huge database of recipes from every chef and every show that appears on the Food Network.

Searching the entire database for MSG, I came up with just seven dishes that call for MSG. Four of these were from a show where they go to film some housewife cooking her favorite dish (often based on a can of mushroom soup!). The other three were all from Chinese recipes appearing on Sarah Moulton's show (geared towards the same Campbell's mushroom soup crowd) and the MSG was optional in one of these.

So, of the professional chefs who have appeared on the Food Network for the past several years, not one SINGLE recipe calls for MSG.

Statistically speaking, I'd say that pretty much qualifies as "scorn" in cooking circles!

For comparison, cumin shows up in 709 recipes and even something as unusual as achiote/annato seed shows up in 34 recipes.

Doesn't mean that "cooking circles" are right. Just the current view of MSG among chefs and "foodies".
 
Thank you Jim,

I missed your reply earlier. I'm not competing yet, but I love to cook, who knows, maybe one day !

Marc
 
So, of the professional chefs who have appeared on the Food Network for the past several years, not one SINGLE recipe calls for MSG.

Statistically speaking, I'd say that pretty much qualifies as "scorn" in cooking circles!

I'd be willing to bet that those pro chefs sneak MSG into the very same recipes when they are the ones actually serving them!
/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

They aren't going to admit adding the evil MSG into their recipes.

Then again, I think the whole MSG thing is just a conspiracy by McDonalds to shut down the Chinese food mafia... whaaa huh?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Couch Potato:
[qb]I'd be willing to bet that those pro chefs sneak MSG into the very same recipes when they are the ones actually serving them![/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah. It's an elistist snob kind of thing. A trained chef just wouldn't do it.

"Accent" was very much a "1960's" deal: right from the pages of Good Housekeeping Magazine next to the frozen succotash, instant mashed potatoes, and the always yummy tuna noodle casserole (from the recipe on the back of the Campbells mushroom soup can), and other wonders of "space-age" food science.

In the ads, a housewife, always dressed like June Cleaver right down to the string of pearls around her neck, would smile and merrily sprinkle the T-bones with her bottle of Accent "meat tenderizer" before throwing them under the broiler to emerge later as bland gray slabs of mystery meat. Also highly touted as a surefire way to "add a little pizzaz" to your weekly meatloaf. The whole era was definitely the low point in American cooking and today's chefs scorn just about everything from that period.

Again...neither right nor wrong. That's just the way "foodies" view the stuff. Pretty much the way bar-b-q'ers view Liquid Smoke, boiled ribs, and Hickory Salt.

PS: I almost forgot. You were also supposed to rub Accent on a bee-sting!
 
It's good for bee stings and also the only remedy I'm aware of for jelly-fish stings. It really works!

As far as adding it to food, it is unproven as to it's effectivness or it's danger. The fact that so many people are opposed to consuming it (for whatever reason) stops me. I don't believe one should add ingredients to food they're preparing when there is a good chance their guests might have an objection to.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick H:
[qb]As far as adding it to food, it is unproven as to it's effectivness or it's danger. The fact that so many people are opposed to consuming it (for whatever reason) stops me.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's a fair assessement. I suspect that MSG has gotten a bit of a "bad rap" in the trend towards thinking that everything in food is bad for you. The basic underlying compound "glutamate" is widely found in natural food products (like soy sauce, mushrooms, and tomatoes) and the manufacutured chemical versions are added to half the bottled stuff on the grocery store shelves, including many items labeled "no MSG" where the glutamates appear incognito as part of stuff like hydrolyzed soy protein.

Apparently enough studies have been done on it to conclude that MSG is basically safe for human consumption in reasonable quanitities. However, there are a lot of stories (perhaps urban legend) that indicate mild allergies to it.

I'm kind of like you...lacking any clearly defined benefit of adding MSG and given the fairly widespread objection to its use, why bother?

There have been similar (largely unfounded) concerns about sodium nitrites in meat products. But, at least in that case, there are clearly defined and valuable benefits to using it in things like homemade sausage -- namely that it prevents botulism poisoning (which can either kill you or make you wish that it would). To me, that kind of clear benefit tips the scales in the other direction.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Currie:
[qb]I did not mean to start a spice war ![/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No war allowed on this BB, Marc, just spirited discussion! As with the items being discussed in the Controversial Statements thread, there's no right or wrong answer to this question, only opinions. So just do whatever makes sense and tastes good to you, and have a lot of fun while doing it!

Best regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Webb Collings:
[qb]
Again...neither right nor wrong. That's just the way "foodies" view the stuff. Pretty much the way bar-b-q'ers view Liquid Smoke, boiled ribs, and Hickory Salt.
[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True that no one in BBQ circles recommends boiling ribs--that's one thing we all seem to agree upon--but there are still folks using Liquid Smoke and hickory salt, and both items are discussed in Paul Kirk's popular book on sauces and rubs.

But like you said, "Again...neither right nor wrong."

Best regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]...there's no right or wrong answer to this question, only opinions. So just do whatever makes sense and tastes good to you, and have a lot of fun while doing it!
[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. The bottom line: Good eats and fun is what cooking is all about.

Heck for something people REALLY have different opinions about, try cooking fried chicken!
 
Guess I'll add my three cents.....

It's my understanding that MSG "opens" the papillae, which contain the taste buds on the tongue, and increases their sensitivity to flavors. Therefore, once there is just A LITTLE MSG in ONLY ONE dish in a meal, the taste buds on the tongue become sensitized, so don't put any more MSG in other dishes. It apparently works on the tongue rather than on the food.

The major complaint about MSG is that people use too much of it. They think if a pinch is good, a teaspoon is better. A little dab will do ya'. My suspicion is that some people have jumped on the dump-MSG bandwagon without learning much about it and say they're allergic to it as an easy excuse.

So, if you're making a side-by-side comparison, taste the non-MSG ribs first. If you taste the ones with MSG first, your tongue will become sensitized and both types of ribs will taste the same -- theoretically.

All that said, I hardly ever use it myself, maybe once a year. I like to think my cooking has enough flavor on its own!

Rita
 
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