Mixed (read poor) results


 
T

Tony V

New member
Cooked 3 bone-in bb over night this past weekend. Started at 10:00 Sat night, used mm to start, 2 butts on top and 1 on the bottom grate. Foil the pan and used a clay base (foiled) in the water pan.

Temps held steady around 250 all night and into Sunday morning. At the 12 hour mark, I checked the butts for the first time. One of the butts on top was at 195 -200 in various places. Only a small portion was done with the "butter" probe test.

I thought they couldn't be done already. All 3 butts were approx. 7.5 lb. So I let it go, pretty much ignoring the temp of the meat and was going for the "butter" probe test. Well, after a total of 17 hours and not feeling the love from the meat, I couldn't wait any longer.

Took to a neighborhood party and to my surprise the meat was dry and apparently overcooked.

Looking for any wisdom here. By the way, this was my first attempt with 3 butts and the first attempt using the top and bottom grates.

Ideas? Advice?

Thanks in advance.
 
I am curious about this also, i have had similar results though I pulled mine off earlier. I have done a single butt numerous times with decent results but the first time I did more than one at the same time, my luck was not very good.

With mine when it reached 195 I pulled them off because the probe seemed to slide in like butter, but when I got ready to pull most of the outer meat seemed overcooked/mushy but the further into the meat I got it did not pull easy as it normally does, would have been perfect for slicing but not pulling. I would have thought i need to cook longer except like I said a good portion was mushy/overcooked.
 
My guess is too long. I did 2 8 pound butts lower grate and 10 pound brisket top grate this weekend @ 250 and butts where ready after 9 hours although I did foil after it hit 160 deg internal.
 
There's obviously going to be some resistance when you insert a probe to a butt, even if it's perfectly cooked. But the probe will slide right in.

Basically if you use enough force to break the bark with the probe, the probe will continue right on through. A small amount of resistance is normal, but not much. You'll get the feeling after a few more smokes, don't worry.

There are parts of the butt that are more lean and parts that are more fat. The probe will often slide right into the fat when it will "stick" in the lean meat. The butt is done anyway at this point, you can pull it from the heat, foil, and rest it. It doesn't have to be butter soft all over.

Another way to test (especially for beef chuck) is to stick a fork in the meat and twist, if the meat wraps the fork like spaghetti it's done.

Or, if you have a bone-in butt, jiggle the bone. If it feels like it will come out without a lot of effort, the butt is done.
 
Tony, pics would be nice. My reconning says that a 7.5lb butt at that temp should take about 11.25 hrs. Butts do have a way of screwing us up tho sometimes and can take much longer. I would be interested to know if the bone was loose when you stopped cooking. I suspect not. Also what did the butt feel like when touched? Did it kinda wiggle like jello? Another question would be did you let the meat rest after you stopped cooking it in a warm and insulated place? And what was the condition of the meat befor e you cooked it? Fresh, Frozen? Did you inject ?

Sorry to hear about your experience, but there are some good cooks around here who may be able to shed some advice for your next outing.

On the outside I would suspect undercooked, but there are other possibilities.

Mark
 
Tony did you foil?

I think its a good idea if you are just starting to foil butts at first. Gives you a wider margin of error. Another thing when fighting moisture problems is opening the cooker too often. The more you open the drier it will be in the cooker. This is especially true with an electric cooker. Butts are so forgiving not checking often won't hurt a thing.
 
Dryness in the cooker ? dry meat. Dry meat comes from overcooking (or undercooking in some cases).

I'm wondering about the bone feel too.

Also wondering if they were rested.

Butt comprises different muscles but you said you checked in various places...

Spread out the coals for the Minion start?

All vents equally restricted or did you close two and control with one?

I've never had an issue cooking one but or 4, top grate only or both.

[Dave from Denver, if you have a sec, see this.]
 
Thanks for the information. To answer some of the above questions...

One of the bones was loose. The others were not that loose. When touched, it did not wiggle like jello. Kinda of firm. I did not inject. Bought from the store (not frozen) put in fridge, took out, rubbed and put on the wsm.

I did not foil. I have not done that with any of my butts, however I may try that next.

After they came off the wsm, double wrapped in foil and put in a cooler wrapped towels for an hour before pulling.

Thanks
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Dryness in the cooker ? dry meat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not intending to start a debate but I disagree. Yes a dry cooker can still produce moist meat but I don't see how you can suggest that a dry climate will be as likely to produce moist meat as a moist climate would. Its why foiling and braising works.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don't see how you can suggest that a dry climate will be as likely to produce moist meat as a moist climate would. Its why foiling and braising works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've done started it without trying. Dryness in meat is only caused by overcooking - the additional heat cause the muscle protiens to contract and essentially squeeze the water out from inside the meat. You can have dry braised meat just as well as you can have dry dry-roasted meat.

The reason that braising and foiling work to keep meat "moist" is that they create an artificial barrier to temperature. The braising liquid is simply never going to be to far above 212 F so it will take longer for the meat to reach those dried-out temperatures internally than if it was exposed to say a 400 degree oven or a 700 degree frying pan.

The "dry" climate in the WSM without water is not that much dryer than a WSM with water in the pan. This isn't a steamer - the water vapor from a pan runs up and out of the exhaust vent with all the other hot air.

If you don't believe me, boil a chicken breast in water for 40 minutes and tell me how moist it is.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave from Denver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I don't see how you can suggest that a dry climate will be as likely to produce moist meat as a moist climate would. Its why foiling and braising works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason that braising and foiling work to keep meat "moist" is that they create an artificial barrier to temperature. The braising liquid is simply never going to be to far above 212 F so it will take longer for the meat to reach those dried-out temperatures internally than if it was exposed to say a 400 degree oven or a 700 degree frying pan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With that logic couldn't you suggest that a cooker with a high moisture content would be less likely to produce dried out temps?
 
No. Unless we're talking unreasonably high cooktemps, there really isn't such a thing as 'dried out temps'.

High moisture cookers - which the WSM decidedly is not - transfer heat far more efficiently because of their high humidity (think steam- or combi- ovens). Evaporative pressure from the meat's surface is markedly reduced, but the meat can still overcook no problem. Meat cooked in combis still drip, losing moisture/rendering. If the meat cooks too long at sufficient cooktemps its muscle fibers will squeeze out too much moisture/renderings and the meat will be dry.

No one suggested that 'a dry climate will be as likely...' anything. But one can cook equally as easily with equally as achievable results in a WSM with water or without. With water, the WSM nowhere near qualifies as a 'moist climate'. Moister, perhaps, but the humidity produced gets carried off in the draft readily. (Steam and combis don't have that problem). The increased moisture on a WSM with water can affect meat surface texture - well, bark texture - but not much more.
 
Tony,
It's sort of like butter, but not melted butter.
icon_biggrin.gif
Dry from overcooking in your case IMO. 17 hours is simply too long, based on my experience, for a 7.5 lb butt, whether one or three cooking at ~250. Hindsight tells me that when you checked at 12 hours, you should have yanked off a piece of meat and tasted it. That might have told you that the butts were done or at least told you to cook a little while longer, and then check. I find that 1.5 hours per lb at ~250* is just about what it takes and I don't foil and use the clay saucer, no water. I bet you get better results next time. Give it another shot.
 
Tony, Based on the lack of bone movemnet in 2 of the butts I still am leaning towards undercooked. However....
There was a similar thread within the past few weeks and I believe the verdict was overcooked. I was a bit suprised when first reading your post that you had checked the meat FOR THE FIRST TIME at 12 hours. What was your estimated
cooking time? Perhaps there was a period of time when the butts weren't monitored and they passed thru the done, moist stage to the overcooked dry stage. Why the bone didn't move is beyond me but I don't believe that I have ever let a butt cook so long that it dried out. Another variable might be that the cook temp was higher than you thought and the cooking process shortened.

Mark
 
Sorry you weren't happy with your cook Tony. When your bb hit 195-200 you should have pulled them off. Also, you should have wrapped up in foil and let rest in a cooler. It resting in foil allows the juices to stay put and not continue to steam away. Try that next time you do a butt or three
icon_smile.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
...The increased moisture on a WSM with water can affect meat surface texture - well, bark texture - but not much more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So it's not my imagination after all.

This works for me on everything:

reasonably full cooker + water in the pan + moderate temps + NOT overcooking + adequate resting =
wsmsmile8gm.gif
 
And this for me:

cooker with any meat amount + dry pan + temps 325-375 + NOT overcooking + resting =
wsmsmile8gm.gif


(It's not overcooking that's the kicker.)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
And this for me:

cooker with any meat amount + dry pan + temps 325-375 + NOT overcooking + resting =
wsmsmile8gm.gif


(It's not overcooking that's the kicker.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Foil's your friend.
icon_wink.gif
 
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