Minion Method - Bitter Smoke?


 
D

Dennis T.

TVWBB Super Fan
I recently used the Minion Method to smoke ribs and noticed a considerable amount of bitter, acrid smoke coming off the smoker when first assembled. I used a small amount of apple wood. The smoke smelled exactly like Kingsford when it first lights.

I noticed the same bitter/acrid taste in the food, but no one else noticed. Later, when eating leftovers, I did not notice the bad flavor.

I attributed the off taste to the bitter smoke, but, upon reflection, I remembered tapping the smoker legs during the smoke to remove some ash and raise the temp a bit. Perhaps the off taste I noticed was from ash?

I know that when grilling with Kingsford, one is always advised to let the charcoal ash so you don't get that bitter smoke. Is this an issue with the Minion Method? If not, why not?

Thanks for any perspective anyone can give me!
 
Dennis,

You'll get opinions all over the map on this. While waiting for the responses to flood in, you can check here and here.

I'm not sure that letting Kingsford ash over when grilling has to do with bitter smoke. It probably has more to do with making sure the coals are good and hot, and making sure the 1/2 bottle of lighter fluid most people squirt on has a chance to completely burn off.

As far as Minion goes, you have fresh charcoal lighting off throughout the entire cooking process. Why do you smell at the beginning but not once the cooker heats up? I think Jim himself (I may be mistaken about the attribution) theorizes that once the fire gets hot enough, those volatiles are consumed by the fire and can't be smelled.

What you tasted may have been ash or Minion, but not noticing it later in the leftovers is odd. As you can see, given that your guests didn't notice/comment, it's all a subjective thing. You might try again and see if you get a similar result. If so, try yet again with Kingsford but let the cooker come up to 225-250*F before adding the meat, or switch to a different briquette or lump.

Regards,
Chris
 
Dennis were you using wood chips or chunks? How many?

I have found that it usually takes a good 45 minutes into a cook till I see that beautiful thin blue smoke coming out of the vent, as apposed to the thick billowing white smoke that occurs early on in the startup.

Foiling the large chunks in a packet might help slow their rapid combustion which would give you the thicker white smoke that contains more water vapor, and volatile compounds.
 
Dennis,

A few ?...
Was this your 1st MM?
Did you have the top vent fully open?
Have you used Kingsford before?

I've never experienced that. I'd attribute it to the ash rising up.
 
I too have had that happen. I attributed the bitter taste to lots of smoke, cold meat, and low temp at start-up. I have also found that if you have a large amount of smoke and the vent closed down on an offset you get the same thing (bitter taste). I would imagine that would hold true with the WSM. Green wood would tend to do the same thing IMO. My $.02 worth. There are lots of good folks here that have more experience with the WSM than I that will offer advice on this.
 
Thanks everyone. I was running at a low temperature, so that might have had something to do with it.

I only use Kingsford and I have used the Minion Method before for longer non-rib smokes. Up until this time, I had used the standard method for ribs. And yes, I had the top vent fully open.

Chris ... thanks for the links, I'll check out the discussions.

Thanks again everyone.
 
Since Kingsford made the changes to the forumual I don't use the product any longer.

If the wood was green or wet that would be the most likely cause, but...?
 
The wood was dry.

Do low temperatures present a problem? I don't have the temps with me right now, but I followed the instructions on this site. My goal temp was 225, but it took a bit of time to climb to that temp ... the time during which I had the ribs on.
 
Dennis,

You're not alone on this. I also have noticed (with ribs only) that I can taste a difference when the minion method is used. The coals are lit with a chimney starter and nothing else so this is really just the charcoal. Since ribs rarely need more than 6 hours you don't really need that method anyway.

Jim
 
Originally posted by Jim Minion:
Since Kingsford made the changes to the forumual I don't use the product any longer.

Interesting! Jim, what is different about the new formula? I'm on my last bag of the old formula, and have a 9 lb bag of the new that I haven't opened yet, so I don't have any experience with the new stuff. I've been waiting for Home Depot's sale on the Kingsford 2 packs, but I want to hear your opinion before I purchase anymore charcoal....

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by Mike Willis:
Interesting! Jim, what is different about the new formula? I'm on my last bag of the old formula, and have a 9 lb bag of the new that I haven't opened yet, so I don't have any experience with the new stuff.
Click to expand...
How can you tell old from new?
 
Originally posted by Jim Minion:
Since Kingsford made the changes to the forumual I don't use the product any longer.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. I've always associated the "Minion" method with Kingsford, probably just me overlooking the fact that there are other briquettes out there.
Jim, are you using lump or a different briquette?
I too smell that weird smell when lighting K, but I've not sensed it in the meat (yet).....My brain might make me start looking for it now. I'm thinking of switching over to RO lump all together though (RO is all I can find except for that crap Lowes and HD sells)
 
Originally posted by KenP:
How can you tell old from new?
Click to expand...
New Kingsford has SureFire Grooves...two parallel lines pressed into one side of the briquette. The grooves provide more surface area, more edges, and more air circulation, all of which promote faster lighting.

The product will say "SureFire" on the bag.

Regards,
Chris
 
Originally posted by Mike Willis:
What is different about the new formula?
Click to expand...
The big difference is more char wood in the mix and the SureFire grooves that promote faster lighting.

We spent a LOT of time discussing this when the change happened back in 2005-2006. This search renders a ton of results:

New Kingsford discussion from 2005-2006

I wrote an article called Kingsford Charcoal Briquets: New Design, New Formula for 2006 that describes the product.

I also wrote a Kingsford R&D Lab Trip Report after being invited to visit the Clorox R&D facility in Pleasanton, CA.

Regards,
Chris
 
The new product burns up to fast and I have found a number of products I like better. I also have a Rancher and a few Primos so I use lump all the time.
Going to have some coconut charcoal some interested in seeing how that works. This product is hard to obtain getting it from in friend in OR.

Jim
 
hey dennis, as elementary as this sounds it may have been yer palette. i find myself thinking everything is too smokey while others do not. then again they are never huddled around the wsm with me. a cup of coffee or the little pink stuff that comes next to sushi(pickled ginger) before you eat will clean the ol pie hole right out. just a thought
 
Thank you, Chris and Jim, for your replies. I will check out the thread you referenced Chris - always interested in multiple opinions. I was at Walmart today, and saw 18 lb bags of Sam's Club charcoal briquets. Says on the bag that they're 60% larger (I guess they're comparing to Kingsford). Costco used to carry a brand called "Presto", and they're briquets were very large also - I wonder if the Sam's Club briquets are similar to these.

If anyone has tried these larger Sam's Club briquets, I'd like to know how they are. An 18 lb bag for $4.62 isn't too bad....
 
i use kingsford new and old and cannot see the diff in the results both are excellent. the problem is liekly in how low your temps are. get below 200 with wood (type of wood doesnt matter) in the wsm it will produce acrid bitter taste due to incomplete combustion so all the residue doe not get burned but deposited on the pit and meat instead. a sign of this is dripping sticky coating on the lid. this build is creaosote which basically a tar like byproduct of low temperature smoke.

creosote has a very acrid bitter taste. wood like pine and mesquite have very high levels of creosote. hard woods have lower levels and green wood often doesnt get hot enough to burn the creosote materials hence the reason it is not good to use green woods.

if your having trouble with acrid bitter flavors run your wsm a little hotter. personally i shoot for 250 not 225. this gives you play either way big cuts of meat using low and slow will do fine between 225 and 300 so shooting for 250 gives you 50 degrees either way. too low, in my opinion, is worse than too hot. with the slow even changes in temp that the WSM provides a big buffer will prevent creosote formation on the food leaving only the smokey goodness.

one last thing i use the minion method and find the new kingsford design excellent for that method. i have no problems with it. i use about 20 lit coals spread on the top drop my smokewood on and assemble the smoker and put the meat in. i dont wait for the cooker to come to temp i just shoot for the 250 mark and catch on the way up usually only takes about 15 minutes to hit smoking temp. i have had so much problems getting quality lump i have given up on it. i stick with kingsford now exclusively. one of the most annoying things about lump was the utter mess it makes filling the chimney and coal ring on the wsm. i always had thick layers of coal dust on my hands clothes and pation. just one of the many things that annoyed me about lump.
 
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