Med-Heat Brisket Cook
- Thread starter LarryR
- Start date
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Try some Worcestershire powder (WorldSpice.com).
*****
Forgive me not getting back here. The past few days have been quite a journey. Regardless, the train of thought I was on (the 'wine post') escapes me--and it isn't the wine!--so, if any had/have a notion of where I mught have been headed vis-à-vis the OP or the flow from there...
j. -- I use evoo more than anything. Did you write about your 'recent experiment' in detail somewhere? (I can glean from the posts upthread if not.)
Dan/j. -- Oil amount is often critical. Like an oil-based baste, oil-based pastes or oiled meats can cook quicker (the oil, if sufficient, reduces evaporative cooling); oil is not necessary for sticking, in most cases; the oil v. juice dynamic varies with meat, meat surface, cooking approach, etc.; oils' flavors should be considered upfront.
Larry -- Glad you enjoyed your evening and your meal!
*****
Forgive me not getting back here. The past few days have been quite a journey. Regardless, the train of thought I was on (the 'wine post') escapes me--and it isn't the wine!--so, if any had/have a notion of where I mught have been headed vis-à-vis the OP or the flow from there...
j. -- I use evoo more than anything. Did you write about your 'recent experiment' in detail somewhere? (I can glean from the posts upthread if not.)
Dan/j. -- Oil amount is often critical. Like an oil-based baste, oil-based pastes or oiled meats can cook quicker (the oil, if sufficient, reduces evaporative cooling); oil is not necessary for sticking, in most cases; the oil v. juice dynamic varies with meat, meat surface, cooking approach, etc.; oils' flavors should be considered upfront.
Larry -- Glad you enjoyed your evening and your meal!
Ed Cardoza
TVWBB Pro
Well, it only took me until now to post this, but the coffee rub that Larry R used on the brisket was quite good. My wife is not too keen on briskets, and she was totally impressed with the flavors that she tasted on this brisket. Now I seem to remember that the brisket was very good, and had a nice carmel flavor to it. The pasta salad that Larry makes was also top notch as was the chile lime cole slaw that my bride made.
After the great dinner, things got a little blurry for me. We sat down and listened to music for a few hours more while consuming massive amounts of adult beverages.
Heck, it was like the dog days of summer only cooler. Good friends, good food,good beer, and good music. It doesn't get any better than that.
After the great dinner, things got a little blurry for me. We sat down and listened to music for a few hours more while consuming massive amounts of adult beverages.
Heck, it was like the dog days of summer only cooler. Good friends, good food,good beer, and good music. It doesn't get any better than that.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
No, Ed, it doesn't. Sounds like a terrific time.
(Tuscany Gasser -- link?)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the oil v. juice dynamic varies with meat, meat surface, cooking approach, etc.; oils' flavors should be considered upfront. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I got rushed here. These variables are kind of hard to elucidate further. They are the sorts of things that one best learns over time, as one experiments. Though 'critical', none are (usually) anywhere near make-or-break concerns.
(Tuscany Gasser -- link?)
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the oil v. juice dynamic varies with meat, meat surface, cooking approach, etc.; oils' flavors should be considered upfront. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I got rushed here. These variables are kind of hard to elucidate further. They are the sorts of things that one best learns over time, as one experiments. Though 'critical', none are (usually) anywhere near make-or-break concerns.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">j. -- I use evoo more than anything. Did you write about your 'recent experiment' in detail somewhere? (I can glean from the posts upthread if not.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope, just happened to be a coincidental observation. I made a wet-ish rub with evoo and when I tasted it the flavors were somewhat muted and over shadowed by a small the amount of flavorful evoo. The finished product didn't have as much flavor as I intended and therefore blamed the evoo. In retrospect, I don't think it was an issue, I was just being over analytical, but still curious if Larry could corroborate the observation.
Can we say that oil does effect bark and ring formation? Larry mentioned that it may have, and it seems sound.
Nope, just happened to be a coincidental observation. I made a wet-ish rub with evoo and when I tasted it the flavors were somewhat muted and over shadowed by a small the amount of flavorful evoo. The finished product didn't have as much flavor as I intended and therefore blamed the evoo. In retrospect, I don't think it was an issue, I was just being over analytical, but still curious if Larry could corroborate the observation.
Can we say that oil does effect bark and ring formation? Larry mentioned that it may have, and it seems sound.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
We can say that it certainly can. Amount of oil relative to the other ingredients is a key variable, as is is quality. Oil can affect heat transfer in a way that allows for warming of the surface of the meat sooner, thus changing the conditions we think necessary for ring formation.
To finesse these issues one can alter ratios upfront (important for the flavor profile target), and/or can apply (or purposely misapply) the paste in a way that makes quick surface warming less likely. It's helpful in this case to also make sure one ramps the temps slowly or moderately.
Hope this helps.
['Over'-analysis can leaad to great insights but I know what you mean. Exactly what you mean.
]
(The pic is small here but this post shows a high heat brisket with a dry-rub-over-paste-rub approach. A 1/4-3/8 ring is evident. Evoo in the paste. Application and ramp were key. A bit harder to do with thinner items especially if ramping isn't in the cards.)
To finesse these issues one can alter ratios upfront (important for the flavor profile target), and/or can apply (or purposely misapply) the paste in a way that makes quick surface warming less likely. It's helpful in this case to also make sure one ramps the temps slowly or moderately.
Hope this helps.
['Over'-analysis can leaad to great insights but I know what you mean. Exactly what you mean.
(The pic is small here but this post shows a high heat brisket with a dry-rub-over-paste-rub approach. A 1/4-3/8 ring is evident. Evoo in the paste. Application and ramp were key. A bit harder to do with thinner items especially if ramping isn't in the cards.)
Ed Cardoza
TVWBB Pro
LarryR
TVWBB Diamond Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In retrospect, I don't think it was an issue, I was just being over analytical, but still curious if Larry could corroborate the observation.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>This was not a concern on this brisket, it was packed with flavor! I think I ended-up using about 1/3 a cup oil.
No question on this brisket the oil effected (right usage?) bark formation. There definitly was not the typical smoke ring, however, at closer examination (when I was sober) there was a dark outer layer on the brisket. I think this was from the dark rub and resting overnight vs. smoke ring.
At first I thought I might try it again using water, but now I really don't see any need as I was very pleased with the results as was everyone else. For me, smoke ring and bark are not a major issue, flavor is foremost. If you're a ring/bark person, I'd suggest using water.
It's interesting that Kevin wrote that oiled meats cook quicker, no question that this one did (which was a good thing).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>This was not a concern on this brisket, it was packed with flavor! I think I ended-up using about 1/3 a cup oil.
No question on this brisket the oil effected (right usage?) bark formation. There definitly was not the typical smoke ring, however, at closer examination (when I was sober) there was a dark outer layer on the brisket. I think this was from the dark rub and resting overnight vs. smoke ring.
At first I thought I might try it again using water, but now I really don't see any need as I was very pleased with the results as was everyone else. For me, smoke ring and bark are not a major issue, flavor is foremost. If you're a ring/bark person, I'd suggest using water.
It's interesting that Kevin wrote that oiled meats cook quicker, no question that this one did (which was a good thing).
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
If the oil resulted in or results in successful bark formation, it effected it. [/pedantics]
Water can work--add teaspoons at a time and allow for bloom time. A little Dijon can work, perhaps fresh onion or chile, fresh or reconstituted dry -- puréed -- to make the dry stuff paste-y.
Flavor is foremost to me too.
Water can work--add teaspoons at a time and allow for bloom time. A little Dijon can work, perhaps fresh onion or chile, fresh or reconstituted dry -- puréed -- to make the dry stuff paste-y.
Flavor is foremost to me too.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
Larry, I hope you dont mind, but for those interested, I posted the coffee rub recipe I've used with some success.
I use it mostly for grilling steaks and the recipe would not be complete with the sauce that I like to serve it with a great New Mex style bbq sauce. They go great together.
ancho coffee rub/New Mex bbq sauce
I use it mostly for grilling steaks and the recipe would not be complete with the sauce that I like to serve it with a great New Mex style bbq sauce. They go great together.
ancho coffee rub/New Mex bbq sauce
Ed Cardoza
TVWBB Pro
JB, I was just checking out that recipe for the ancho/coffee rub, and it sounds really good. I will definitely give that one a try as well. especially withe the New Mexico BBQ sauce, that made my mouth water.
LarryR
TVWBB Diamond Member
Kevin, here's the link to Tuscany Grills. I've cooked on Ed's and it's quite nice.
J, don't mind at all, more rub options the better.
J, don't mind at all, more rub options the better.
Larry,
That paste sounds amazing. I'm thinking about using it on this massive 15lb packer I'm going to attempt to high heat this Saturday. A couple questions.
Your paste, do you feel that recipe has enough substance to sufficiently cover a 15 lb packer? I've yet to trim it.
If you were to do it with the high heat method, would you change anything ?
That paste sounds amazing. I'm thinking about using it on this massive 15lb packer I'm going to attempt to high heat this Saturday. A couple questions.
Your paste, do you feel that recipe has enough substance to sufficiently cover a 15 lb packer? I've yet to trim it.
If you were to do it with the high heat method, would you change anything ?
I must say, the smell of this "paste" is really intoxicating. However...
I'm having some serious consistency issues with the paste... it's not really a paste, it's thicker. It's coming out of my (POS) blender in clumps, like little milk duds. It's strange.
Oh well... I'll dust it with some dry rub before i throw it onto the smoker tomorrow.
I'm having some serious consistency issues with the paste... it's not really a paste, it's thicker. It's coming out of my (POS) blender in clumps, like little milk duds. It's strange.
Oh well... I'll dust it with some dry rub before i throw it onto the smoker tomorrow.
Well despite my clumping issues w/ the paste, I just want to say this may be my new favorite brisket rub. The flavor was great !
Since I didn't get too much coverage from my paste, I just whipped up a dry rub version using granulated garlic instead fresh chopped, and sans oil.
Did this brisket high heat. Started with a 4/5 ring of lump, then a full lit chimney.
This 14 lb packer took about 2 hours to get to 170* @ 335-350. Foiled fat side up, added no liquid, and cooked for another 2.5 hours. Didn't bother probing in the foil. First tender tested probe slide in effortlessly. Threw it in a toweled cooler for about an hour before I sliced it up, wrapped it in foil and went over to a friends house.
I saved about half of the point for chili later on.
8 adults, 3 small children, and 1 hungry thieving dog devoured this brisket FAST. Really fast. No leftovers at all.
Awesome recipe. Thanks Larry !
Since I didn't get too much coverage from my paste, I just whipped up a dry rub version using granulated garlic instead fresh chopped, and sans oil.
Did this brisket high heat. Started with a 4/5 ring of lump, then a full lit chimney.
This 14 lb packer took about 2 hours to get to 170* @ 335-350. Foiled fat side up, added no liquid, and cooked for another 2.5 hours. Didn't bother probing in the foil. First tender tested probe slide in effortlessly. Threw it in a toweled cooler for about an hour before I sliced it up, wrapped it in foil and went over to a friends house.
I saved about half of the point for chili later on.
8 adults, 3 small children, and 1 hungry thieving dog devoured this brisket FAST. Really fast. No leftovers at all.
Awesome recipe. Thanks Larry !