maybe learned something somewhat new

[Dan H.]

tryin to keep this short, but: put a tri on the smoker a couple nights ago or so and thought it was pretty darn good, but different. I've never actually smoked one before (I know, sorry guys) so thought i'd try. Was obviously more tender, but a bit dryer. Keep in mind i've GRILLED a load of these on the kettle and of course not to sound braggy, but I feel I know what there gonna turn out like every time, and after a while really got the hang of them. Have always sort of wished they could be a bit more tender.. not saying there bad AT ALL, but just a little more tender and they would be miles above prime rib in my book (even though in my book they already are). anyway.. Basicly led me to this point. Im still a bit confused when I read that low/slow is not a must, when it obviously changes things like tendernes.. first I finally noticed w/ chicken, now this. I will say that I don't remember reading that low/slow doesn't HELP tenderness though, maybe i've just always read it isn't nessassary period, in which case I totally completely agree.. just cant remember. Anyway my "learned something new" may be: that depending on size of meat, is the point of what we all do to?: find just HIGH enough heat to cook through the food in fast enough time as to not dry it out, but just LOW enough that we can get it TENDER as possible w/out drying it out? I hope that made sense, and is there anyone that would agree w/ that, or have some cool fact/info for me?. I ask cause I never really analyze stuff to much, and it took me this long to think of that, lol. would be cool to see what you all thought. And could/does this apply to MANY cuts in your opinions?
K just proof read it and its pretty silly but hope someone w/ more knowledge of how and why things work knows what Im trying to say. Im just kind of in my head comparing this theory to like high heat briskets etc. which if I had to guess (i've really NEVER made one before) is a HH brisket a bit more chewy (be honest now, its ok, im not saying "rubber" but just a bit more

) then low slow, BUT much more juicy and more appealing texture? compared to what I and others would do w/ low/slow? what Im saying is my briskets ussually fine but about 50 or more percent of them could def. use a bit more moisture to them. of course in my head i'm visuallizing the perfect one, Im sort of picky w/ them cause I really like them. Either I finnally get it or I really sound like an idiot, which is nothing new to me so thats fine. thanks for the help and info a million!! in the mean time I screwed up pretty bad and if anyones bored I could use some advice in kitchen equip. and gadgets forum... its always something w/ me..

 

[j biesinger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">find just HIGH enough heat to cook through the food in fast enough time as to not dry it out, but just LOW enough that we can get it TENDER w/out drying it out. I hope that made sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Temp also effects other variables including:

the texture and color of the of the exterior of the meat. the higher the temp the more exterior browning

the average temp of the meat. large roasts cooked at high temps will exhibit a "bullsize" of doneness, the center may be med-rare, but there will be a med ring around it, and a med-well ring around that.

similarly, latent heat or thermal momentum will be higher at high temps. when working with high temps, its a good idea to pull shy of target temp so that you don't overshoot it will the roast rests.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> is a HH brisket a bit more chewy (be honest now, its ok, im not saying "rubber" but just a bit more Big Grin ) then low slow, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the HH I did on thursday, IMO was ideal in both tenderness and moisture. Melting collagen is all about time and temp, and in my limited experience, 2 hours in foil at >300* is more than enough time to get a brisky meltingly tender.

If you are curious about time and temp matters relating to meat cookery, I suggest doing some research on sous vide methods. essentially you are cooking at the temp you want to finish at (147*), for periods long enough to reach desired tenderness (48 hrs). The meat is completely sealed to prevent drying during the extended cook. I've yet to experiment with these methods but I've done a bunch of reading and it relates well to what we try to do with the wsm.

 

[Jerry N.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dan H.:
tryin to keep this short ... its always something w/ me..

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couple too many beers tonight Dan???? Nothing like a buzzed ramble - now is there?

 

[K Kruger]

I'm with j on his points above. My HH briskets are meltingly tennder as well, from thinner flat tip all the way across, the reason I prefer HH for brisket: consistency cook-to-cook and within the cook, end-to-end.

It should be noted that foiling changes the cooking dynamics on several levels. Comparing a HH brisket that was foiled during cooking to a tri that wasn't (no matter what the cooktemp) is an apples=to-oranges thing, pretty much.

Something of interest, perhaps, Dan: Beef contains enzymes (the same ones that work during aging) that become more active as the meat warms. They quit their activity at ~105? for one, ~120? for the other. Milking the time below these temps can add significantly to tenderness and bringing the meat to or toward room temp first does this--in addition to allowing for more even cooking. This can also be finessed by using the MM for start-up and gently raising cooktemps. Both approaches combined can work well to increase tenderness in cuts that start out as less tender to begin with.

 

[Bryan S]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
My HH briskets are meltingly tennder as well, from thinner flat tip all the way across, the reason I prefer HH for brisket: consistency cook-to-cook and within the cook, end-to-end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Same here. Much more tender than a low n slow brisket.

I do all my Tris on the lower grate direct over the coals, no water pan in there. Also do my steaks, chops, burgers, RS chicken, bellas etc. as well that way.

 

[Dan H.]

now that really is interesting to me. sounds like what I'll do next is maybe bring the tri slowly to around those temperatures (120 correct?) and then crank on the high heat for the nice exterior I like and color? sounds cool. I gotta ask, where did you find out all this stuff? I guess a better question to ask would be how do I seperate facts from bull in all these things I research, it seems to be overwhelming in the bull department in most places. That answere I imagine would be rather long though so I'll assume you've just picked up on a lot of this over a long period of time and effort, like I hope to. You should play an instrument!

Also thanks for the idea J. I couldn't remember that term sous vide. maybe if you do get around to it someday you could post about it and same w/ me if I do too. that sounds different and new, and one to try. thanks.
jerry, no, the beer thing was the other night when I burnt the crap out of the skillet.. this is just "normal" ramble for me.. I just always feel like I'm missing something that would help me w/ bbq/grilling. maybe I just eat to much of it and im trying to get it to "perfect" or something.

 

[K Kruger]

How high you take the internal depends on where you want your finish to be. 120 is good for a med-rare/med finish if you are then going to go direct to do a finishing sear.

Not sure to whom your question is directed but, me, I've cooked for a very long time, mostly professionally, and have studied food science, food safety, and classic and emerging techniques (like sous vide) for some time.

You are correct that there is a lot of bull out there. You are also correct that much comes from time and effort, both of which will not only inform your cooking skills, but will allow you to pretty easily see then dismiss the bull when it comes your way.

If you do a search on sous vide in here you will find some discussion. There is more (reliable info) on other sites as well. Sous vide can be a little pie-in-the-sky-out-there-overrated on some sites and in some applications. It is a worthwhile technique to learn, however, but, excepting the higher heat stuff (confit sous vide at 180, e.g., which I have done for some time), it is not an inexpensive approach. Even the used lab bath circulators are not cheap. And new equipment runs from nearly $1000 to well over $3000. Still, for some things (confit, as noted, or finishing pastrami) sous vide takes nothing more than a vac sealer, a pot, water, a therm, and a low flame on your stove.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I just always feel like I'm missing something that would help me w/ bbq/grilling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Keep on keepin' on. Try new approaches, new combinations, new techniques. Epiphanies come, sometimes, seemingly out of the blue.