Loin-Ribs and Brine...


 
A

Andrew D-TX

New member
Gentlefolk,

I have had excellent success brining my pork loins and tenderloins before smoking them. As loin-ribs come from the same region of the hog's body, I wonder if they would profit from brining? Brining does not appear to be part of any of the rib recipes I've found.

Any thoughts?

Andrew

P.S. I am looking to smoke my first ribs tomorrow.
 
Loins and tenderloins are leaner cuts that benefit from brining. Ribs have enough fat so brining isn't necessary. The melting fat helps keep the ribs moist as long as they are properly cooked
 
For typical barbecue I'm very much with Dave. It's not warranted. Occasionally I will flavor-brine ribs (using a well concentrated brine), rub with herbes de Provence or something appropriately suited, and rotis or grill them. Works well. This is more for the flavor imparted, not because they 'need' brining. They don't.
 
I put this in another thread where KK here dissed marinades. Now he's dissing brining. I completely and utterly disagree with his sentiment. Anyone want to get to the real truth needs to do them side by side. I've done this same experiment three times now with the same results every time. Brining, and marinating, make loin ribs (or any ribs) significantly better:

Last Saturday I took a slab of ribs and cut it into three (close to) equal sections of 3-4 bones each. The first I put a teaspoon of garlic and 6 turns of fresh black pepper on each side (control). The second set I did the garlic and black pepper and apple juice (marinade). The third I did the garlic, black pepper, apple juice and salt (brine).

I left them in the fridge overnight, and then the next day I took them out of their bags, washed them off with water and patted dry. Then I applied the same rub to all three and cooked the same way. The control was a good rib and we enjoyed them. The other two were significantly better ribs.

I did this with just myself and then did it with blind taste testers twice and the results were the same, brining and marinating made ribs better. If you disagree, just do the same experiment I did and taste for yourself...
 
With over 35 years of cooking professionally, creating numerous marinades and brines, many of which have been discussed on this board over the past many years, it cannot be said that I've 'dissed' brining.

Again (do you read what I write or have difficulty understanding the words?), I said it was warranted, i.e., it is not necessitated. It isn't. One certainly can do so if one prefers. As noted, for typical barbecue I'm with Dave and do not brine or marinate. There are rib presentations in which I do do one or the other. But this is not for typical barbecue.

The OP questioned the benefit of brining ribs vis-à-vis loins and tenderloin. Flavor issues aside (which Andrew is not mentioning here), because of the lean and fat structure in ribs brining is not necessary. One certainly may do so anyway, especially if there are other aspects of brining that one is looking to elevate.
 
You can listen to KK's 35 years of experience or try it yourself. Do so and you will marinate and brine every time. It's not a hard experiment and the taste difference is significant. Of course taste is an opinion and I don't have a flavor meter that KK seems to think is necessary to validate an experiment such as this and thus counter his experience. But since I know of no such flavor meter, the only thing you can do is try it, taste it, and form your own opinion.
 
This discussion, as already noted, was not one of flavor. As noted, I flavor brine and marinate quite often.

Rather than promoting antagonism with me, you might try actually reading what people write rather than responding tangentially to something not even in question.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
This discussion, as already noted, was not one of flavor. As noted, I flavor brine and marinate quite often.

Rather than promoting antagonism with me, you might try actually reading what people write rather than responding tangentially to something not even in question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's not in question. You have said repeatedly that marinades don't add much to meat and are not necessary. Now you're backtracking. Fine by me.

You say you brine often but told the OP not to brine the ribs. Where is it said that this discussion is not about taste. The OP never said he planned on brining for tenderness or something other than taste. You rip my reading comprehension yet you are making qualifications on this discussion that nobody but you are concerned with. The OP asked if his ribs can benefit from brining, you say you often brine ribs to add flavor but then tell the guy they don't "need it." They guy wants to know if a brine will improve his ribs and it most definitely will. Why make it overly complicated?
 
All set Andrew?
icon_smile.gif
 
Andrew, hope your ribs turned out well.

Here's what I took from the above. Ribs, when cooked to the correct doneness (be it BBQ'd, grilled or otherwise), do not need to be brined to prevent dryness (common reason a brine is used). They can be brined/marinated if the goal is adding a flavor that you can't get by just including it in the rub mixture on the exterior.

I'm not sure how long of a brine time it would take to get the desired flavor effect. Ribs are fairly thin so I wouldn't think long (I brine large turkeys for 2-3 days then give them another day before cooking to let things “equal out” inside the flesh). Brines must contain enough salt so that you initiate osmosis (movement across a semi-permeable membrane driven by differences in the concentration of dissolved salts between the liquids on each side of the membrane), otherwise there’s no reason for the meat’s cells to allow anything in. So unless your brine has a higher concentration of what you want added to the meat than is already in the meats cells, you not going to get the results you want. I know when I make bacon using a brine solution it can take several days for the flavors to develop/make it to the center of a thick slab.

As far as using a marinate, unless you are going to let it sit in the solution for a long period of time (think brine), all your getting is a surface flavoring. Hence, K. Kruger's comment, in most cases it’s just as easy to get the flavor you want with a rub and/or paste. I’ve definitely found that when I do the Roadside Chicken recipe (highly recommend if you haven’t tried yet), there’s a big difference in flavor between letting it sit for a few hours compared to eight hours or even overnight. In fact, overnight was almost too much.
 
Don't get the antagonism Scott and don't see any more value by re posting it here than on the other thread. Nor are you adding any new information in terms of method, skill, or knowledge. In fact not even simply being civil, really dislike your tone. A waste of my time to have to even scroll down past your posts.

Added to my ignore list, see ya! If I want your opinion on something guess I'll visit your blog.

Sheesh! Out of the years on this site this is the first person to go to my ignore list.
 
Gentlefolk,

Thank you all, once again, for the advice.

My rib smoke was delayed until this weekend. Basically, my guests had something come up and then were out of town and then SxSW happened. Now we can finally get to the task at hand.

My guests are actually my neighbors. They have been observing me smoke briskets, pork shoulders, loins and such for years now. They grill ribs. They proposed a ribfest taste off. It sounds like a fun Saturday.

Here's the hardware situation: I have both a bullet and kettle. I was going to set up the bullet for St. Louis ribs and the kettle, in a smoking configuration, for baby back ribs. My neighbor will do his normal grilling of baby back ribs on his gas grill.

Here's my summary of the conventional wisdom:

1) Flavor brining is effective.

2) There is a difference of opinion about whether straight sugar/salt brines are useful. The argument appears to be a matter of taste.

2a) It is claimed, by observation, that ribs contain more fat than the nearby loins. Hence, brining ribs, as is also the case with pork shoulder, does not particularly help.

I am confused. I have frequently followed Mr. Kruger's advice to achieve success. (His brisket papparadelle is a family favorite. I think everyone looks forward to the papparadelle more than the brisket itself.)

As this is a ribfest and I'm an engineer, I think I'll brine one rack of the 4 St. Louis rib racks I'm smoking.

Andrew
 
Andrew,

Good to note that you have switched from loin back ribs to Spares, there is a big difference. Spares have even more fat, so for MOISTURE, the brine is not needed. Again, for FLAVOR you could do that. Or for FLAVOR, you could incorporate the flavors you want in the rub. Much easier in my opinion. I like your idea of trying 2 different ways, as that will give you a great comparison. Personally, I would split it 50/50 for 2 racks each when testing. However, since I like the non-brine approach, I like your 25/75 idea.

In response to your questions:
1)What flavors do you plan on incorporating into the brine to get better flavor into the ribs?

2) I use straight sugar & salt brines for moisture. If you are going to through the effort for brining for flavor, you may want to add more to this.

Ray,

x2. Didn’t know there was an ignore button, thanks!
 
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