Lid temp. can fool you.


 
J

John Drackett

New member
When I started with my WSM, I cooked a whole chicken. All good. I had some leftover charcoal, so the next time I used a lot less charcoal. Not good. The lid temp was about the same, but the same size chicken would not get up to the right temp. I think it is possible to have a little bit of air at, say, 225 degrees or three times as much air moving over the meat at 225 degrees. I've noticed that with a larger, hotter fire, the lid temp can read the same. That would mean that meat could cook faster or slower at the same lid temp reading. This is the same principle as "wind chill factor." We all know 35 degree air when you are standing around is not the same as 35 degrees on a motorcycle. Heat or cold will transfer faster when more air is moving. Is this an important factor that is not considered? By the way, I have used about the same amount of water in the pan on every cook.
 
John,

Since you took the time to make a post, I believe you should get a response. First of all, I am relatively new to the WSM but have been smoking meats ~10 years or so. Let's see, where do I start concerning your post.

1. Do not be concerned with the wind chill factor. From an engineering point of view, it is too complicated so let's just keep things simple. Let's not worry about air moving over the meat as this is going to happen no matter what. What you are seeking is a nice, steady 225 - 250 degree temp.

2. Right from the start, I used the Minion Method described at this site with excellent results. I am able to control the temps where ever I want them to be. I follow the instructions exactly, even to using water.

3. Either decide to measure your temp from the lid or from the grate. I prefer the grate method and have used this for the ~10 years. I have the probe through a small block of oak. I place it on the grate and have found it to work for me. You can use the lid temp method, but learn one and stick to it. In this manner, you can learn vent control to manage the temps consistently.

4. High temp versus low temp cooks. I recommend you learn the long and slow method before venturing to the quicker, high temp method. Again, what you are seeking is to learn how to manage your temps. It is important that you learn this. Once you master the low temp method, you can venture to the high temp method. You gotta stick with one; hone your skills.

5. Smoking meat is a wonderfully rewarding hobby. There is no reason you should not be able to master the skills necessary to produce consistent, quality smokes. Again, temp control is the key. I wish you the best.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.
 
John, I think I get what you're saying. It reminds me of a cook where I cooked two eight pound-ish butts on the bottom rack and one avg. size brisket on the top rack, probably around 12lbs if memory serves. It was a cool and breezy spring night so I had my drum halves around the cooker to protect it from the wind. Well, I was using water in the pan, but I cooked a little hotter than usual, shooting for around 250-260* or so measured at the vent. Imagine my surprise though when all were done at the 12 hr mark the next morning. All I can say was that those two butts and the brisket were really soaking up the heat and the top of the cooker was being cooled a bit by the ambient temps that affected the cooking grates somewhat less. By the way, I don't think I've had butts or briskets get done any quicker than 14 hrs on other cooks when I used water in the pan. Anyhow, the thing about measuring grate temp is that it's difficult when full of meat, which my wsm usually is. Regarding the lid temp, the two places are very different, and I much prefer measuring temp at the vent over using the cheap dome gauge, that's for sure. It's less affected by the meat temp since it's in the stream of circulation.
 
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying the question but, do you mean that the meat temp cools the rising air enough to throw off the lid temp? I'm not an engineer (no offense to engineers meant) or even as seasoned a cooker as some here but I don't think that your meat should impact lid temp unless you started with a huge amount of meat added at a very low temp, like a few frozen butts.

Even given that, as the meat rises to a normalized temperature during the cook the lid therm should equalize as well. Perhaps a test of the lid therm is in order.

Perhaps I've misunderstood the question. If so, my apologies.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James Harvey:
...do you mean that the meat temp cools the rising air enough to throw off the lid temp?...I don't think that your meat should impact lid temp unless you started with a huge amount of meat added at a very low temp, like a few frozen butts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never noticed that a cooker simply takes longer to heat up with a couple of decent sized butts or briskets, frozen or not, than if cooking just a couple slabs of ribs?
 
I'm with Dave. Throw in 4 butts or a brisket and 2 butts or 6 beer can chickens and the WSM takes a while to heat up. And once the meat gets to 130 or so the WSM temp can start to run away.

Also if you put your meat probe next the cold meat it will read lower than the lid until the meat gets hot and then it will be closer to the lid temp.

I don't see rising heat creating enough of a "wind" inside the WSM to make a signficant difference to heat exchange on the meat.
 
Dave - Again, maybe I'm missing the point. I thought the question was whether cold meat would affect the updraft temp at lid level due to the cold meat below. I agree that the cooker temp or grate temp is not affected by the meat above. I don't think grate temp and lid temp should be overly impacted by the meat between. Again, am I missing the point?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris E:
...Throw in 4 butts or a brisket and 2 butts or 6 beer can chickens and the WSM takes a while to heat up. And once the meat gets to 130 or so the WSM temp can start to run away.

Also if you put your meat probe next the cold meat it will read lower than the lid until the meat gets hot and then it will be closer to the lid temp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Regarding heat spikes after the meat gets heated up and cooking, this is why you need to work fast to get the lid back on after messing with the meat (ie. foiling, rotating), especially if not using water in the pan.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vaughan:

3. Either decide to measure your temp from the lid or from the grate. I prefer the grate method and have used this for the ~10 years. I have the probe through a small block of oak. I place it on the grate and have found it to work for me. You can use the lid temp method, but learn one and stick to it. In this manner, you can learn vent control to manage the temps consistently.

4. ... hone your skills.

5. Smoking meat is a wonderfully rewarding hobby. There is no reason you should not be able to master the skills necessary to produce consistent, quality smokes. Again, temp control is the key. I wish you the best.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>I wanted to expand a bit on Vaughan's comments.

3. I use a Maverick at the grate and also cross check against the lid temp, but I find myself giving precedence to the Maverick. Whichever one you choose, you will learn what temp gets you the results you want. (For example, I find that my mini seems to register lower compared to the WSM but the meat cooks and I like the results...
icon_wink.gif
)

4,5) As you work with your WSM, you will learn how it responds to the techniques you use and your results will improve. There is a fair latitude in what we attempt to do (for example high heat vs. low 'n slow - they both work) so don't worry if things don't always go exactly as planned. Likewise don't be discouraged if your first smoke doesn't produce the results you had hoped for. Keep at it!

I also highly recommend keeping logs of your cooks. Keep notes of anything you do that affects the results as this will be invaluable information the next time you want to make something. I blog my big cooks but keeping notes any way you like is going to help you leverage your experience to achieve better results.

Oh, and BTW John, Welcome to TVWBB!
icon_biggrin.gif
 
Excellent advice on logging cooks, Hank. Here's a link that gives some tips on logging cooks as well as downloadable Excel & PDF files for cooking logs.

Cooking Logs
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jim H.:
Here's a link that gives some tips on logging cooks as well as downloadable Excel & PDF files for cooking logs.

Cooking Logs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi Jim,
That's a great article that I hadn't seen before. I need to learn that there's more to this site than the forums. That pretty much describes my approach to logging.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top