Is the WSM all wet?


 
K

KeithAdv

TVWBB Member
I mentioned earlier that I'm in that sad limbo state between taking delivery on my first WSM and my first cook. So in my idle moments...

One thing that made me question getting the unit were passages like these:

...from Smoke and Spice: "It [a water smoker] adds considerable moistness to food, much more than you get from a water reservoir in a log pit. When you want a crisp, crunchy finish...you may need to cook without the water pan....traditional barbecue meats such as beef brisket and pork shoulder remain excessively fatty because of the added moisture."

...and from Raichlen's How to Grill: "The only drawback is that because of the low cooking temperature (225 to 250F) and the moist smoking environment, your food never acquires a crisp crust."

In the short time I've been reading this group, it SEEMS like the conventional wisdom is to the contrary, with some users stating they don't even notice a difference when they substitute sand for water. Based on the apparent widespread consensus, I ordered the WSM anyway.

Still...I wonder what led these respected authors to definitive negative opinions on the subject? Is there any grain of truth there? Or does everyone here just like wet food?
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Still...I wonder what led these respected authors to definitive negative opinions on the subject? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably cooking on an ECB or a total lack of genuine que smoking experience.

I assure you, water, or no water, your brisket will have a good crust if you get the temp up a tad.

Fat + heat = crisp.

I did two pork butts last weekend and they were both smoked on the WSM using a full water pan.

By the time they were done, both had an excellent coating which was slightly dry around the edges. I have absolutely no doubt that if I had spiked the temps up to say 300 or so for 10-15 minutes they would have had a bark.

Both were about 8 lbs and there was VERY little fat left when I pulled and rested them. Maybe ½ cup total from both butts.
 
Keith,

Keep in mind that the water in the pan does not add moisture to the meat. It is there to act as a heat sink to somewhat regulate the temps.

Also, the WSM has been used in many, many competitions and has won many many times.

Al
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KeithAdv:
...from Smoke and Spice: ....traditional barbecue meats such as beef brisket and pork shoulder remain excessively fatty because of the added moisture."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. That's just plain and simple not true. It's hard to say why they said that but it's so not true. There might be some effect on the crust (bark) from the moisture, but to say the meat will end up excessively fatty because of added moisture is just ridiculous. You could, with a full water pan, render all the fat from a brisket and have a piece of shoe leather. Moisture, the kind you want when you're eating BBQ comes from the fat and broken down connective tissue (collagen) and not water.

Enjoy your new WSM. I think you will find this board and the folks on it to be the most helpful and certainly the most reliable source for information.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You could, with a full water pan, render all the fat from a brisket and have a piece of shoe leather. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Amen. Done it. Several times.
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Smoke And Spice was my first BBQ cookbook and got me into this thing of ours and Raichlen deserves respect but, hey, who you gonna trust?
 
I've cooked many butts and briskets and had wonderful bark. Is hard bark always desired? Foil seems to soften it more than the water in a "water smoker".

Having said that, I have been experimenting with an FE100, a dry cooker, and the ribs I made last weekend had a much harder bark than what I get out of the WSM. At first I thought it might have been dry enviromnent, but looking into a bit further, I forgot to account for temperature differences in the cooker and wound up cooking the ribs at about 50 degrees hotter than I usually do. Cook's error, not a cooker error.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joel Kiess:
Smoke And Spice was my first BBQ cookbook and got me into this thing of ours and Raichlen deserves respect but, hey, who you gonna trust? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Youse guys
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Smoke and Spice put me off the most, because it's often cited as "the bible," on the matter, if there is one.

Raichlen--I respect him, but there's something about all of his techniques and recipes that seem so fiddly. Sometimes he reminds me of the "anal-retentive chef" skit from SNL. I'm more of the "best, freshest ingredients you can find, simply prepared" school.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm more of the "best, freshest ingredients you can find, simply prepared" school. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed KiethAdv, as far as smoke and spice I also started with that book, but I find Mike Mills' "Peace Love and Barbeque" much more helpful and entertaining.

As for Raichlen, I've been watching his show for the last 6 months, and it appears to be more of an infomercial for his products, I haven't seen him use anything but his Gasser or Ranch Kettle. I'm really not sure he could beat Bobby Flay in a "Throwdown"
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jerry N.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KeithAdv:
...from Smoke and Spice: ....traditional barbecue meats such as beef brisket and pork shoulder remain excessively fatty because of the added moisture."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow. That's just plain and simple not true. It's hard to say why they said that but it's so not true. There might be some effect on the crust (bark) from the moisture, but to say the meat will end up excessively fatty because of added moisture is just ridiculous. You could, with a full water pan, render all the fat from a brisket and have a piece of shoe leather. Moisture, the kind you want when you're eating BBQ comes from the fat and broken down connective tissue (collagen) and not water.

Enjoy your new WSM. I think you will find this board and the folks on it to be the most helpful and certainly the most reliable source for information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Jerry - you are precisely right. It's pretty foolish for them to claim that it will remain fatty because of the water. You could boil those meats and still render all the fat. That's a moist environment if there ever was one and it would still suck the fat out. Moist environment has no bearing over the fat rendering. Very, very odd comment by them. There may be more truth to the bark formation thought, though my experience hasn't shown that to be true either...

I think folks like this grew up using offsets and other smokers. Probably don't have a lot of experience with water smokers, so they assume it's this big steam bath, when, at temps around 250-ish, it's nowhere near that...
 
There are idiots and there are educated idiots. Just becuase they put out several books and have a following or TV program doesn't make them know it alls. Remember in the old, old, old, old, old days, the educated idiots taught the sun revolved around the earth.

I respect Bobby Flays's cooking skills and he has his own program on BBQing but.... Have you heard about his "classic" assembly of the WSM?

If I remember right, don't the Jamisons advocate cooking at 180 degrees? I know it can be done but I consider that to be too low.
 
At the invitation only Jack Daniel's world championship teams I know have used a WSM to take first place in Brisket and Pork Shoulder.

Smoke and Spice was my second book. It has some good recipes but some method advice is weak. My first Book was Red Caldwells Pit, Pot and Skillet a true classic.
 
My "bible" is Paul Kirk's Championship Barbecue book - I figured that with all the contests he's won (the American Royal, BarbeQLossal, 7 world championships and a win at the Jack Daniel's Invitational, plus many more), he'd be dependable. I have looked at the Smoke & Spice book as well, but I just couldn't stand the bad "jokes" and much more elitist attitude in it - I'd rather take the half cocky but still humble approach of Mr Kirk. I have only had the WSM for 2 years now (as long as the book), but I'd say that 80% of what I cook is better than restaurant food, so I can only imagine how tasty things will be when I've tamed this beast better.

In any case, Kirk has nothing but good things to say about the WSM. He mentions nothing of any drawbacks in its design, but rather says that a lot of people have won competitions using the bullet. I watch every credible barbecue cooking show I can find, and quite often a competition is featured - and I frequently see a bunch of WSMs cooking in the background.

I just think that while there's ways of stepping things up a notch with rigs and other types of smokers with all their pros and cons, the choice of champions is difficult to argue with at least for a backyard chef. As someone else said, if it doesn't turn out great, don't blame the cooker, blame the cook.
 
I have found that if you let the water pan empty during the last 1 to 2 hours of the cook, a pork butt develops a nice bark. Problem solved !
 
Reminds me of a great quote..."the paper never refuses the ink". When I read things that "famous" Q'ers write such as the quotes above, I kinda start to question their knowledge about any barbeque. I think that a lot of them just hype up the "mysteries" of bbq for marketing and to make it sound like you *need* the book. If a total neophyte wanted to learn about Q, I bet they could get more out of browsing posts from TVWB for a few hours than from an entire book on bbq. I may pick up the odd bbq book just for some interesting rub recipes or something (Dr. BBQ's book turned me on to jerk chicken, for instance) but as far as technique goes I stick with this site.
 
I would bet that I learned everything I know from this web site. I own several books (including Smoke and Spice), but I consistantly use this site for its use of practical experience and Chris' scientific approach to 'Q knowledge. These forums are invaluable.

Experimentation is fun. Especially when you get to eat the results. Some come out better than others...but I haven't thrown any out yet...
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-Matt
 
I fished in a few good old boy fishing competitions. I was amazed at how few people would share any kind of information. I would expect this from a competition with a large prize, but not a small event.

This is exactly the thing I love about this web site. Everyone is willing to share their ideas. This site convinced me to purchase a WSM. And because of the information provided by all of it's participants, my family is able to enjoy a variety of different BBQ foods. I love to try new options. Thank you. I appriciate the advice given by the members.
 
I don't own any BBQ books (yet) and before this year, I thought BBQ'ing was the same as grilling. Now I'm a WSM owner, cooking the best ribs that I ever have and like I said, haven't read anything except this site.

If and when I buy a book it'll be for entertainment and recipes only, I get my advice from this forum

No disrespect to any of the "famous" Q'ers, but IMHO, the real experts are on this forum.
 
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