I may be totally alone in this, but I'm just not a fan of rubs. I've tried this one and that one and the other one, and they all just seem...I don't know...too much. Too overpowering. I'm thinking I'll bag the whole idea of rubs, and stick to a simple marinade. Does anyone else take this approach?
I hate rubs!
- Thread starter Mary M
- Start date
Steve Petrone
TVWBB Diamond Member
Mary, try salt and pepper. Rubs are like wine, what is good (wine) is what you enjoy.
Moving from Rubs Forum to Barbecuing Forum, as this is not a recipe.
Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
Start simple.
Keep it simple.
I do my own and it has about 10 ingredients.
You can get nice results with just 4 or 5....play with it in small batches.
Pepper, onion powder, garlic powder, are the 3 primaries for me. After that, sugar, salt, heat of choice, are individual tastes.
You'll find something, really.
Keep it simple.
I do my own and it has about 10 ingredients.
You can get nice results with just 4 or 5....play with it in small batches.
Pepper, onion powder, garlic powder, are the 3 primaries for me. After that, sugar, salt, heat of choice, are individual tastes.
You'll find something, really.
LOL, you must be related to my wife!!
IMHO, marinades are good for fast cooking things like chicken breasts and (occasionally) steak. Rubs are best for longer cooking things like ribs, brisket and pork butt. What is it you're cooking that you don't like the rub on? What rub are you using?
The other posters have given excellent advice. Maybe you could identify the taste you like in your favorite marinade, and make a rub with similar taste?
Have fun experimenting Mary, and welcome to the boards!!
JimT
IMHO, marinades are good for fast cooking things like chicken breasts and (occasionally) steak. Rubs are best for longer cooking things like ribs, brisket and pork butt. What is it you're cooking that you don't like the rub on? What rub are you using?
The other posters have given excellent advice. Maybe you could identify the taste you like in your favorite marinade, and make a rub with similar taste?
Have fun experimenting Mary, and welcome to the boards!!
JimT
Jim H makes a great point...how much rub you put on makes a huge difference.
Ribs just get a nice light even coat, but brisket/butt gets hit heavy. Sometimes I even apply more rub on the Butts when I first check them around the 10 hour mark.
Try cutting back on your amount you put on, or if you don't like heat, leave out or cut back on those items.
Ribs just get a nice light even coat, but brisket/butt gets hit heavy. Sometimes I even apply more rub on the Butts when I first check them around the 10 hour mark.
Try cutting back on your amount you put on, or if you don't like heat, leave out or cut back on those items.
dsitterson
TVWBB Super Fan
Is there something that you don't like in the rub? Are you making your own or are you using store baught. I agree with the above go with a sprinkle or cut back on what you are tasting to much of. My friends rub is always to salty for me but he loves it. It's all up to your taste. Half the fun is finding what you like.
David Lohrentz
TVWBB Pro
Mary, tell us how much rub you use and how you apply it. It may be that you are just using too much.
When you say overpowering, do you mean, too hot, too salty or just to strongly flavored?
When you say overpowering, do you mean, too hot, too salty or just to strongly flavored?
Thanks for the replies, all. I've used a bunch of different rubs, most recently a variant of Armadillo Willy's rub (used chili powder instead of the cayenne). I don't think I'm using too much. I guess what I don't like about rubs is that they're too heavy on paprika and in general insufficiently subtle. Many rub recipes seem to have a "more is better" approach, with a gajillion different spices instead of a few that are well-chosen with regard to the type of meat being cooked.
Since I got my WSM, I've smoked four things: ribs, chicken, a pork shoulder and salmon. I used a marinade for the chicken and an uber-simple rub for the salmon, and I think they came out best. I can believe that there are better rubs and better ways to use them; I just don't understand why they're so ubiquitous and why marinades seem so out of favor.
Since I got my WSM, I've smoked four things: ribs, chicken, a pork shoulder and salmon. I used a marinade for the chicken and an uber-simple rub for the salmon, and I think they came out best. I can believe that there are better rubs and better ways to use them; I just don't understand why they're so ubiquitous and why marinades seem so out of favor.
Craig Castille
TVWBB Wizard
You are not alone.
I marinate ckicken almost always.
For rubs, they are easy to make....start simple with the 4-5 basics and go from there.
I rarely use store bought rubs.
I marinate ckicken almost always.
For rubs, they are easy to make....start simple with the 4-5 basics and go from there.
I rarely use store bought rubs.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just don't understand...why marinades seem so out of favor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, likely for several reasons though I disagree that marinades are 'out of favor'. In terms of outside cooking/barbecue they were never pervasively popular. I think many people (including many cook book authors!) realize that one has to have a better understanding of ingredients in general, potential marinade ingredients in particular, and how various ingredients interact with each other and with what is being marinated for the marinade to be successful. An understanding on timing--how long a particular item will need to be marinated for best results (differences in ingredients in the marinade and different items being marinated will have different optimum times) is another requirement.
Very thick items (roasts, large fowl) do not marinate well. Thin items can be easily overwhelmed, especially mildly flavored stuff like b/s chicken breasts, shrimp, et al., if the above understandings aren't utilized. Though brining is another way of getting some flavors into dense meats, marinating does not work well with these types of items' structures. Ribs do not marinate all that well, for example.
Lastly, rubs can foster a surface texture (depending on several factors) that many find desirable: bark.
I agree that paprika is way overused in many rub recipes. It is often the primary ingredient--or the primary ingredient after salt and sugar (another overused ingredient). But paprika, imo, defines subtle, and doen't contribute much to most rubs, especially those for long-cooked items and those that will be used on items exposed to high direct heat. Lots of sugar has a dulling effect on flavors.
The other important thing for me with rubs: When meat items ('meat' here including fowl and fish), especially, are grilled or smoked or smoked/roasted, hundreds of flavors are developed simply due to to the caramelization of the surface of the item being cooked. A well made rub, appropriately applied, can allow the taster to actually taste some cooking-created flavors that might normally go unnoticed; rubs can enhance, highlight, deepen, and provide counterpoint to the flavors created during caramelization. Because flavors from marinades and flavor brines actually get into the meat, these flavors tend to remain much as they are, they do not necessarily alter during cooking nor do they necessarily combine with other flavors to create new ones as elements within rubs can. Even most cookbook authors and barbecue 'experts' don't get this. Though, depending on the ingredient(s) and quantity applied, some flavors in rubs might remain distinctive that is not what one should be shooting for--in my opinion: I am not looking for a garlic-onion-thyme-rubbed steak to taste like a garlic-onion-thyme-rubbed steak when it comes off the grill. It better not. I'm looking for flavors to be created which will result in an overarching profile that is NOT made up of identifiable key flavors, i.e., the flavor of grilled beef, the flavor of garlic, the flavor of onion, the flavor of thyme. I'm looking for a profile composed of layers of flavors that, while subtly distinguishable, are not necessarily able to be labeled beef, garlic, onion, etc. I'm looking for more complexity than that, a broader version of beef, and new flavors made by cooking and combinations of the rub ingredients with each other and the main item--and through this complexity a greater subtlety, that is, an inability on the part of the taster to identify categorically these flavors. Well made rubs, applied appropriately can do that. If I wanted these flavors (e.g., garlic, onion, thyme) to be easily identifiable--to taste like themselves when cooking is completed (and I sometimes do)--I would marinate or flavor-brine.
Very thick items (roasts, large fowl) do not marinate well. Thin items can be easily overwhelmed, especially mildly flavored stuff like b/s chicken breasts, shrimp, et al., if the above understandings aren't utilized. Though brining is another way of getting some flavors into dense meats, marinating does not work well with these types of items' structures. Ribs do not marinate all that well, for example.
Lastly, rubs can foster a surface texture (depending on several factors) that many find desirable: bark.
I agree that paprika is way overused in many rub recipes. It is often the primary ingredient--or the primary ingredient after salt and sugar (another overused ingredient). But paprika, imo, defines subtle, and doen't contribute much to most rubs, especially those for long-cooked items and those that will be used on items exposed to high direct heat. Lots of sugar has a dulling effect on flavors.
The other important thing for me with rubs: When meat items ('meat' here including fowl and fish), especially, are grilled or smoked or smoked/roasted, hundreds of flavors are developed simply due to to the caramelization of the surface of the item being cooked. A well made rub, appropriately applied, can allow the taster to actually taste some cooking-created flavors that might normally go unnoticed; rubs can enhance, highlight, deepen, and provide counterpoint to the flavors created during caramelization. Because flavors from marinades and flavor brines actually get into the meat, these flavors tend to remain much as they are, they do not necessarily alter during cooking nor do they necessarily combine with other flavors to create new ones as elements within rubs can. Even most cookbook authors and barbecue 'experts' don't get this. Though, depending on the ingredient(s) and quantity applied, some flavors in rubs might remain distinctive that is not what one should be shooting for--in my opinion: I am not looking for a garlic-onion-thyme-rubbed steak to taste like a garlic-onion-thyme-rubbed steak when it comes off the grill. It better not. I'm looking for flavors to be created which will result in an overarching profile that is NOT made up of identifiable key flavors, i.e., the flavor of grilled beef, the flavor of garlic, the flavor of onion, the flavor of thyme. I'm looking for a profile composed of layers of flavors that, while subtly distinguishable, are not necessarily able to be labeled beef, garlic, onion, etc. I'm looking for more complexity than that, a broader version of beef, and new flavors made by cooking and combinations of the rub ingredients with each other and the main item--and through this complexity a greater subtlety, that is, an inability on the part of the taster to identify categorically these flavors. Well made rubs, applied appropriately can do that. If I wanted these flavors (e.g., garlic, onion, thyme) to be easily identifiable--to taste like themselves when cooking is completed (and I sometimes do)--I would marinate or flavor-brine.
K. Kruger:
Regarding paprika, I feel that the stuff sold in this country is much milder than that found in Hungary. I've rarely been able to find the hot variety here in America. Here it seems more used for color than flavor but I can't really make that statement with a lot of certitude.
Regarding paprika, I feel that the stuff sold in this country is much milder than that found in Hungary. I've rarely been able to find the hot variety here in America. Here it seems more used for color than flavor but I can't really make that statement with a lot of certitude.
Bill Spearman
TVWBB Super Fan
Mary, to a certain extent I am like you. I am not into the sophistacated rubs nor can I tell the difference between 3 chunks of oak and 2 chunks of apple versus 2 chunks of hickory and 3 chunks of pecan. I am a simple BBQ'er. Smoke is pretty much smoke and a few ingredients in my rub is fine. Having said that may I suggest a visit to the following website-----www.txbeef.org---. A search for rubs will reveal a number of simple ones often with 4 or 5 ingredients. Some great marinades can also be found there.Welcome aboard.
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
tjkoko-- Hungarian paprikas are available here--good ones, imported from Hungary; I have a stash. But paprika is simply not a chile that can stand up to long cooking very well--and I'm talking good Hungarian paprikas; I don't buy nor use the generic stuff.
Bill-- I am not directing this to you but your post prompted me to re-read the others upthread and make the following comment: "Simple" is overrated. Not that simple can't be fabulous, and not that 'simple', in itself, is a problem--it isn't. What I mean by that is that people so often assume that something they don't like flavor-wise--that also happens to be complex--they dislike because of the complexity. No, quite frequently the complexity has nothing to do with it. It's the lack of thought or the misdirection of the recipe that didn't work. Or it is just a personal dislike for the flavor(s) of that particular item. I have had many 'simple' presentations, many items rubbed with a 'simple' rub that are pretty lousy.
A few ingredients or many--and I have said this many times--regardless of the number of ingredients--3, 5, 7, 30, it doesn't matter: use quality spices and herbs. Skip the 'chili powder' from the supermarket--it's junk. Get your own dried chilies, toast them and grind them. Or at the very least, buy high quality pure chile powder (as opposed to 'chili' powder which is mixed with, usually, low-quality cumin, oregano, sugar, etc.) made from chiles that can stand direct heat and/or long cooking.
Get good stuff and go with as few or as many different items as you wish. But with good quality ingredients you can apply much less irrespective of the number of ingredients contained in the mix.
But, I'll reiterate, a good rub--whether it contains 3 ingredients or 30--is not about tasting all those ingredients individually. So-called 'sophisticated' taste has nothing to do with being able to identify every ingredient in the rub. I would be appalled were I to be able to taste all the ingredients in a rub separately as I hope anyone would be.
No, sophisticated taste is nothing more than an appreciation for the possible complexity of created flavor(s). It is an appreciation of the real or possible flavor results, not what goes into creating those results. 'Complex' should taste right. It should not taste 'complex'. And the same goes for 'simple'.
Bill-- I am not directing this to you but your post prompted me to re-read the others upthread and make the following comment: "Simple" is overrated. Not that simple can't be fabulous, and not that 'simple', in itself, is a problem--it isn't. What I mean by that is that people so often assume that something they don't like flavor-wise--that also happens to be complex--they dislike because of the complexity. No, quite frequently the complexity has nothing to do with it. It's the lack of thought or the misdirection of the recipe that didn't work. Or it is just a personal dislike for the flavor(s) of that particular item. I have had many 'simple' presentations, many items rubbed with a 'simple' rub that are pretty lousy.
A few ingredients or many--and I have said this many times--regardless of the number of ingredients--3, 5, 7, 30, it doesn't matter: use quality spices and herbs. Skip the 'chili powder' from the supermarket--it's junk. Get your own dried chilies, toast them and grind them. Or at the very least, buy high quality pure chile powder (as opposed to 'chili' powder which is mixed with, usually, low-quality cumin, oregano, sugar, etc.) made from chiles that can stand direct heat and/or long cooking.
Get good stuff and go with as few or as many different items as you wish. But with good quality ingredients you can apply much less irrespective of the number of ingredients contained in the mix.
But, I'll reiterate, a good rub--whether it contains 3 ingredients or 30--is not about tasting all those ingredients individually. So-called 'sophisticated' taste has nothing to do with being able to identify every ingredient in the rub. I would be appalled were I to be able to taste all the ingredients in a rub separately as I hope anyone would be.
No, sophisticated taste is nothing more than an appreciation for the possible complexity of created flavor(s). It is an appreciation of the real or possible flavor results, not what goes into creating those results. 'Complex' should taste right. It should not taste 'complex'. And the same goes for 'simple'.