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Hope my foods safe


 

Brandon A

TVWBB All-Star
I just did 9 lbs of pp last night for a co-workers party, and now I'm all worried. I know I should have spread it out and let it cool evenly before freezing, but I was pressed for time and put it all in two 4.5 lb foodsaver bags, vac'd and put in my deep freeze. I've been worrying about it ever since, did the meat in the middle get to cool fast enough? Should I worry? I did put it in my deep freeze not in the fridge freezer. Maybe I'll open one and eat some meat out of the middle and see if I get sick tonight
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Wheres Kevin when you need him?

Brandon
 
Food needs to be cooled sufficiently quickly, by cooling through the danger zone of 140 - 40 in several hours. Over 140 kills germs, that's why we cook. Under 40 retards their growth, that's why food stores under refrigeration. But, even at room temp some oxygen is required (germs are a living organism), and you vac sealed it--no oxygen!

Then, when it is reheated, it will be heated back up over 140 for consumption.

So, it is completely safe. No one will get trichinosis from your pork. Like Chris says, don't worry about it.

Well, unless they leave it laying on the counter from 6 PM/dinner time, and then eat leftovers the next day. Then they might get sick, but that's their fault, not yours.
 
Awesome guys, thanks for easin my mind.
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I didnt want my first little "catering gig" getting anyone sick
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For some reason I had it stuck in my head, from some post, that I was doing things wrong, but that must have excluded the vac seal. Once again, Thanks!

Brandon
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But, even at room temp some oxygen is required </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, not true. Many pathogens are falcutative or obligate anaerobes. The reason why botulism occurs in improperly canned food is that the food never reached a high enough temp to perform a kill-step, and the lack of oxygen in the can set up the right conditions for outgrowth and toxin formation. Same with the garlic-in-oil issue. High water activity, low-to-no oxygen, a non-acidified environment. B. cereus and S. aureus are falcutative anaerobes; C. botulinum and C. perfringens are obligate anaerobes. Vacuuming can create problems. It in no way negates them.

The problem with pulled pork is all the handling. Staph transfer easily this way. The same can occurs with cooked food that are being made into or included in salads.

In a deep freezer it is more likely that the center of the packages got cold enough in a short enough period of time. One never knows for sure which is why it should be avoided.
 
You know what, I think I pulled my "facultative anerobic Gram- possitive coccus" skiing once . . . hurt like a mother! Just kidding of course. Here's a great feature for those of you who will be looking for a new Fridge/Freezer in the future; my freezer has a power freeze feature where if you press the button in runs continually for a period of time (don't remember how long). I used this feature when doing 4 butts for a party this past June and it worked great! Pulled the pork, put it on cookie sheets and stuck in in the freezer, hit power freeze and within minutes (can't remember how many) the pork was cooled. Transfered to vac. seal bags and put in the fridge for reheating the next day. I'd never used the feature before but it sure came in handy that day.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But, even at room temp some oxygen is required </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry, not true. Many pathogens are falcutative or obligate anaerobes. The reason why botulism occurs in improperly canned food is that the food never reached a high enough temp to perform a kill-step, and the lack of oxygen in the can set up the right conditions for outgrowth and toxin formation. Same with the garlic-in-oil issue. Low water activity, low-to-no oxygen, a non-acidified environment. B. cereus and S. aureus are falcutative anaerobes; C. botulinum and C. perfringens are obligate anaerobes. Vacuuming can create problems. It in no way negates them.

The problem with pulled pork is all the handling. Staph transfer easily this way. The same can occurs with cooked food that are being made into or included in salads.

In a deep freezer it is more likely that the center of the packages got cold enough in a short enough period of time. One never knows for sure which is why it should be avoided. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Understood, well to a point as usual. My next question is, where does staph come from? Or, how does one aquire staph to transfer to the pork through handling? Can it be avoided by washing your hands inbetween handling? I hope I dont get anyone sick, now I'm worried again. Next time I will definately spread and cool before freezing I dont want to worry about this again.

Brandon
 
Try this: scrub your hands for as long as you can tolerate with very warm soapy water, using any type of soap you wish, it doesn't have to be anti-bacterial. Even if you get under your fingernails and all the crevices in your hands, you will still have plenty of microbes(most commonly including S.aureus) left that were missed. This is the most common bacteria that is responsible for acne as well.

Wipe your brow, or touch your eyebrows? You'll pick up a few thousand living and dead microscopic skin mites that live in your eyebrows eating the sebum that your hair follicles secrete. Of course you will carry with that all their excriment, yes, their feces...

But you made it this far in life, and haven't lost the battle. It might make for interesting reading, but for the most part, the many microbe species that live and thrive on the human body just aren't pathogenic, due to our effective immune system.

When it comes to food, the risk of food borne contamination comes from the fact that warm moist neutral pH food, is full of the building blocks for pathogens to grow and multiply, where they can do their damage in numbers. Of course our delicious bowl full of pulled pork, or a dish of macaroni salad, that has sat out on a picnic table all afternoon at temps ranging between 50-85 degrees, don't have a way to fight of the reproduction of these pathogens, or their toxins, that cannot be " cooked out" once they form.

Take home point when it comes to meat: cook clean, chill quick, store properly and serve only when its going to be eaten before it can cool down past 140 or so, and you wont have to worry.
 
Tom makes a very good point. When I first met my SO I was amazed by the lack of regard for proper food storage in her family. I went to a BBQ where raw chicken was sitting in a pot in the hot Central Valley heat for hours prior to grilling. Pork would be put in the microwave for holding over night (after it was served for dinner) and then eaten the next morning. Potato salad would be on the table on a hot summer day for hours. No one ever got sick in the history of their family. I was amazed, trust me, I'm the guy with about 20 bottles of hand sanitizer laying around and used the power freeze feature on my freezer when I did a big PP cook for a grad. party; I didn't get anyone sick nor did their mother over 40+ years. What gives? I still remember one BBQ where I maybe ate a Popsicle because I was so fearful of the chicken in the pot. How did all these children survive?

EDIT: Just re-read Tom's post. Maybe it was because they were cooked/recooked . . . with the exception of the potato salad, I don't know how someone hasn't died from that yet.
 
Hey LarryR, that reminds me a little of my family when I was younger. Food safety wasn't always on the forefront. Today being opening day for college football reminds me of the perfect example.

Tailgating in the Grove at Ole Miss was a huge part of my life growing up (I'll be heading there in just a couple of hours). I know our food safety practices there were appalling. My mom would make mini pigs-in-a-blanket with Lil'Smokies, homemade sausage balls, fried chicken, and a range of other things. Food would start hitting the tables by 8 or 9 in the morning. We'd snack all day then go to afternoon/evening ballgames. We'd often stay well after the game, eating the same food until nearly midnight. Then the next morning when you drug yourself out of bed, the first thing you'd do was check the picnic baskets to see if there might still be a couple of sausage balls or pigs-in-a-blanket left.

None of us ever got sick from that.

That being said, I have learned better (probably from med school) and I am pretty careful with my barbeque.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LarryR:
How did all these children survive? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Partly, it's because they've been lucky.

And partly it's because the four hours is just the government recommended guideline. Because the government wants to err on the side of caution they shave off a bit of time to insure that people stay well within a very safe timeframe. It's not like the food has no pathogens at 3 hours and 59 minutes and then suddenly at 4 hours the pork butt turns to poison.

Also, the time it takes for the food to go bad can be effected by other factors. It will happen more quickly if the food is at 75* vs 135*. And if the various food handlers didn't practice good sanitation and cut corners.

99 times out of a hundred the food will still be safe after five or so hours but do you really want to take the chance? I don't. I'm not interested in killing my guests (well, not most of them), so I, like the government, will err well on the side of caution. But the truth is that people make horrible food handling mistakes every day and by sheer luck no one gets hurt.

Bill
 

 

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