High temp brisket question

[Bryan S]

Originally posted by Alan D:
If I had a WSM, I wouldn't be cooking a brisket in the high 300s, but I don't mean to discourage you folks from doing that...the good thing is we can all enjoy what makes our 'que smoke...in this case it works for you at high temp, I 'spose more power to you folks...maybe I should take note.

I don't understand how you can comment on how a lot of us have been cooking briskets for years at High Heat when you don't even own a WSM.

I'd bet every penny I have that my high heat brisket will be so much more moist than your low and slow brisket.

Over cooking, as with any meat, is what makes meat dry, not high heat. Knowing how to check for tender, and not cooking to a set temp, as many do is key. You have a lot to learn grasshopper.

 

[Alan D]

Originally posted by Bryan S:
I don't understand how you can comment on how a lot of us have been cooking briskets for years at High Heat when you don't even own a WSM.

I'd bet every penny I have that my high heat brisket will be so much more moist than your low and slow brisket.

Over cooking, as with any meat, is what makes meat dry, not high heat. Knowing how to check for tender, and not cooking to a set temp, as many do is key. You have a lot to learn grasshopper.

Bryan,

Let me be the first to apologize to anyone that enjoys cooking at high heat on their WSM, more power to you. I didn't mean to offend, in doing more research here on TVWBB, I see this is a fairly religious subject, for that I am sorry I even posted.

Whatever makes your 'que smoke, and please enjoy your brisket however it is you cook it, toss a cold one or burn a hot one, plenty festivities with the 'que no matter how your smoke floats.

The very reason I want a WSM is so that I can do a long, slow cook, don't let that ruffle your drunken chicken!

 

[Dave/G]

So far, I've done about 10 brisket flats on my WSM. I have no experience with any other smoker. My 2 cents are that the ones I cooked high heat were far superior in every way to the few I did low and slow. And when you factor in the time saved with superior results, it would make no sense for me to do them any other way. I want tender good tasting brisket. I don't want 10 hour cooks. Using high heat, I get the best of both worlds. JMO

 

[Alan D]

I want tender good tasting brisket. I don't want 10 hour cooks. Using high heat, I get the best of both worlds. JMO

I don't mind the time, after I get a stoker or guru, but the thing is for me that the only way I've been able to get the brisket meat so soft that it almost falls apart on soft bread in a sandwich, is the long, slow Texas style cook. IMO, brisket is to Texas as Tri-Tip is to Cali...

I have very limited experience with brisket, I have always let my wife cook it in the oven so I don't destroy it...

I had to cook a 12.5# packer for 18 hours. How long would you take to cook that at high temp?

Either way my guess is I will still need a stoker or guru, unless I want to go through managing the heat myself...

This is the only good experience I've had with brisket...

 

[K Kruger]

I had to cook a 12.5# packer for 18 hours. How long would you take to cook that at high temp?

4 hours for me.

A Guru or Stoker isn't necessary for long, low cooks. Helpful but not necessary.

Many of the places in Texas most noted for their briskets cook them at high heat, not low/slow. Kreuz, Mueller's Cooper's, et al.--cook high or use a variation on the approach.

 

[Steven Hubbard]

So there about a thousand posts on this topic . . . maybe more. I'm planning a cook Saturday, and I think I'll try the high-temp brisket cook.

We have a brisket-fest on our street this weekend where three of us cook brisket. Always a good time.

I have an 11# packer, and I don't know what grade. I understand high-temp with foil is ideal for this case. I'm planning a simple mustard paste, and a paprika and pepper rub. I want to keep the recipe simple while I learn the cook. I plan to trim very little if at all. I'll finish with the no 5 sauce from the sauces forum.

As for the cook, please comment on my plan.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Fill the charcoal ring. I use Rancher charcoal.
<LI>Light ~30 briqs and add them to the top of the ring.
<LI>Add the smoke wood (apple with maybe 1 mesquite chunk).
<LI>Immediately assemble the cooker with empty foiled pan.
<LI>Add the meat cold (right out of the fridge).
<LI>Run the cooker wide open. If temps stall in the 290s, prop open the door to get near 350.
<LI>About 2.5 hours after the meat goes in the WSM, loosely wrap the meat in foil. I do not plan to add fluids.
<LI>At about the 3:50 point, test for fork tender. Test every 20 minutes until it's there.
<LI>Drain the juices (add some to the sauce).
<LI>Wrap tightly in foil and store in the cooler until supper time.
[/list]

This sound reasonable? I'm really looking forward to it. My previous brisket cooks have been good but not great. A little dry -- generally saved by the sauce. I want a moist, tender, almost falling apart brisket that I start eating without sauce. I add a little sauce later when I want some heat.

Thanks,
Steven

 

[Bryan S]

Originally posted by Steven Hubbard:
So there about a thousand posts on this topic . . . maybe more. I'm planning a cook Saturday, and I think I'll try the high-temp brisket cook.

We have a brisket-fest on our street this weekend where three of us cook brisket. Always a good time.

I have an 11# packer, and I don't know what grade. I understand high-temp with foil is ideal for this case. I'm planning a simple mustard paste, and a paprika and pepper rub. I want to keep the recipe simple while I learn the cook. I plan to trim very little if at all. I'll finish with the no 5 sauce from the sauces forum.

As for the cook, please comment on my plan.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Fill the charcoal ring. I use Rancher charcoal.
<LI>Light ~30 briqs and add them to the top of the ring.
<LI>Add the smoke wood (apple with maybe 1 mesquite chunk).
<LI>Immediately assemble the cooker with empty foiled pan.
<LI>Add the meat cold (right out of the fridge).
<LI>Run the cooker wide open. If temps stall in the 290s, prop open the door to get near 350.
<LI>About 2.5 hours after the meat goes in the WSM, loosely wrap the meat in foil. I do not plan to add fluids.
<LI>At about the 3:50 point, test for fork tender. Test every 20 minutes until it's there.
<LI>Drain the juices (add some to the sauce).
<LI>Wrap tightly in foil and store in the cooler until supper time.
[/list]

This sound reasonable? I'm really looking forward to it. My previous brisket cooks have been good but not great. A little dry -- generally saved by the sauce. I want a moist, tender, almost falling apart brisket that I start eating without sauce. I add a little sauce later when I want some heat.

Thanks,
Steven

Steven, Yep you got it. Only 2 things I see. I don't wrap loosely in foil for the cook part. Yes you want a little room for the juices, but not too much. I also wait to get the drippings from the foil after the rest for an hr or so in the cooler. You want as much of the meat drippings/juice to go back into the brisket as possible. I'll take the meat out of the foil and place on the cutting board, then drain all the juice out of the foil into a measuring cup, and then build my sauce from there.

 

[Paul H]

Steven, I foil the meat on the WSM when the temp hits about 170. Then wrap in foil, I check on the meat every half hour or sooner depending on the tenderness, I found it can get real tender real fast which makes the brisket go from great to pot roast quickly. Each brisket is different. Had one about a month go that took forever to finish. Your plan looks good. You'll learn more after the cook is done. Good luck

 

[Steven Hubbard]

Bryan and Paul,

Thanks for the tips. If all goes well, I'll hold the brisket in the cooler for 2 hours before dinner. That's an okay margin to let the cook go longer/shorter.

One more question: when the brisket is foiled, does it matter if the fat cap is up or down? I'm tempted to have the fat cap up at that point so the meat is in the bottom of the foil where the juices will gather.

Thanks again.

 

[Craig Castille]

I try to avoid the cooler thing if possible for a high temp brisket.

If I am able to, and the timing is right, I just tent the brisket and let it sit on the counter for 30-45 minutes.

This depends though on the degree of tender when you pull off.

Everything else sounds A+.

 

[Bryan S]

One more question: when the brisket is foiled, does it matter if the fat cap is up or down? I'm tempted to have the fat cap up at that point so the meat is in the bottom of the foil where the juices will gather.

Steven, Cook fat cap down, then when you foil it to cook til almost tender, put the fat cap up, also let rest in the cooler with fat cap up. Since you will be holding it for 2 hrs. I'd cook just barely shy of tender. The carry over heat will finish it.

 

[K Kruger]

I don't flip mine, fatcap down the whole time, but I only do packers. With flats it is probably better to flip.

Should your brisket hit tender before you remove it from the cooker, I'd suggest resting 20 min, tented, then wrapping and coolering if you need to hold it. This lets the juices redistribute much sooner than if you wrap it completely immediately after removal, and allows some heat to dissipate, lessening the chance that residual cooking will overcook the meat.

 

[Steven Hubbard]

Interesting.

Given the last few posts, I think I'll start the meat on the cooker at 1pm. Dinnertime is at 6pm. Sounds like I should be able have the meet cooked, rested, and sliced by then without any cooler time. If it goes a little longer, I'm sure that's okay.

Sounds risky planning only 5 hrs to do an 11# packer. I'm trusting you guys that it will get there.

 

[Craig Castille]

Just get the temps up, and it'll be done!

 

[Bryan S]

Sounds risky planning only 5 hrs to do an 11# packer. I'm trusting you guys that it will get there.

If it was I doing one for the first time, I'd give myself and extra hr for one of those unknowns that might pop up. If it does finish right on time, you can hold it no worries. With the high heat brisket, I always add more wood than I would if I was doing one low and slow. The time that the brisket has to pickup smoke is very short. So anyway, good luck with your brisket cook, hope it turns out great for you.

 

[K Kruger]

I think the longest I've had one go is maybe 4:20. Not really sure. It's rare that I have one go much more than a few minutes over 4--and I even Minion the start with ~25 lit. The big deal is cooktemp. I get up to ~325-350. After foiling I run 350-375.

A note on foiling: The foil should be sealed tightly but to prevent leakage (if your brisket throws off a lot of liquid, packers usually do) leave some space (maybe 1/2-1 inch) around the sides of the meat and some headspace above. I use a piece for the bottom then a piece on top, crimped together to seal, the crimp line pulled up so that it is above the top of the brisket so that juices stay in the foil. Move it carefully back onto the grate so it doesn't tear or puncture. I lift one end and position a wide spat under it, then lift it with the spat, holding the other end by the crimped seal. Ditto for its removal, in reverse. Don't try to slide a spat under it--lift it and place the spat under it--so as to avoid tearing by the spat.

I drain most of the juices (I leave a little in there for the rest) then defat them. Some go into whatever sauce I've made, some get emulsified with a touch of unsalted butter and a little bit of Dijon. That mix I paint on the slices as I slice. Not required, but I like the look, it equalizes flavors, and it allows for a bit more time for plating or plattering the slices.

 

[dave caston]

Let me put in my 2 cents, I did my 1st high temp brisket (9lb's) a few weeks back. It took a total time of 4.5 hours, 5 hours if i throw in the 1/2 hour it rested. It was the best I had done to date. the rest of the brisket cooks I have done was always low/slow, they were ok but could have been better.( kinda of dry) I went to costco the other day and got a case of briskets, the ave. weight are about 4.5 to 6 lb's I plan on cooking some this week end and will use the high temp cook, it also is a test bed for my next comp. that I do with smaller brisket and high cook temp. The one thing I want to get is a better smoke ring and a little better bark on them, for comp. reason. other then that I plan on cooking them for 2 hrs, foil for an hour or hour&half and let rest for 20-30 mins. this is where I will be looking for tenderness, smoke ring and bark it adjust as need. Any way a lot of thanks go to this fourm for all the ideals.

 

[Steven Hubbard]

okay . . . it's cooking.

It went on at noon. It's not 12:56, and I'm at 325 with the door closed. I think I'm good. It's still climbing although obviously slower. I'm guessing that will settle down in the 340s for a while.

I'll foil around 2:30pm and maybe creek the door then to take a the lid temp up a little more.

I guess I should have double-checked this before I started. Kevin -- are your temps lid temps or grate temps? I am measuring in the lid.

 

[K Kruger]

Lid.

 

[Tom Chips]

Kevin, that foiling method looks like it's going to help me. I never really put that much thought into foiling, and usually end up with mushy bark, and spilled juices.