High Temp Brisket - Kettle - 2/16/08


 
N

Nick H

TVWBB Member
Hey everyone…. Im back for my second attempt at brisket….

I decided that I am going to try the high-temp brisket this weekend on the OTG. I understand that this cook relies more on time and touch rather than time and temp. My first brisket was pulled too soon and was pretty tough… difficult to slice… taste was great…. But there was much room for improvement. There was still a decent amount of resistance in the thicker parts and I only rested for 45 minutes… This time I will put in cooler to rest when there is very little resistance, if any resistance. Rest 2-3 hours depending on the time it goes into the cooler.

I’ve been keeping a close eye on the meat departments in the stores over the past few weeks and spoken with 2 meat managers. The Kroger close to me has cryo choice flat, but no packer. $4.99 a pound!!! Another local grocer has the same, angus flat, 5.99 a pound. The only store I could find cryo packer at was Wal Mart. No-roll Excel. The packer I got was 8.92 # and a shade under $15.

Here is my rough plan:

8am: Trim packer,
8:30: Apply the Smok-La-Homa paste…. Dijon, brown sugar, garlic, Apple juice
8:45: Apply a basic brisket rub over paste, wrap, refrigerate
11:00: Start 5 coals in chimney
11:30 Fire charcoal (banked, unlit kingsford, firebrick, 4-5 chunks hickory, 5 coals lit)
11:40: Add meat cold, fat down… loaf pan filled with cold water. kettle lid temp to 340-360.
2:00: Internal 170… wrap in single layer of foil… return to kettle fat down
3:30: Begin checking for tenderness every 15-20 minutes
4:00: Drain all juice but 1 c into measuring cup, double wrap brisket, place fatside down in cooler.
4-6: Rest brisket, smoke baked beans, bake chipotle sweet potatoes, make sauce with reserved juice
6:00: Slice/Chop brisket
6:30: Eat.

The times here are general. I will have a probe to check for 170, foil, and turn the probe off for the rest of the cook.

The high-temp brisket on the WSM calls for foiling the water pan, but I feel with a kettle the water filled loaf pan will help maintain a steadier temp. No water in loaf pan would probably mean temp spikes more often.

My main questions are regarding the bark and smoke.

I am currently planning on 4-5 chunks of hickory… would a handful of dry apple chips mixed with the charcoal increase smoke flavor at all?

I would like to get the most bark possible but if it is going to complicate the cook too much I am not TOO worried about it. Its my second brisket cook so I don’t want to try to pile on too many things at once. When would I pull the brisket out of the foil and put it back on the grate directly? Im comfortable with the fork test for determining when the brisket is ready, I am just unsure of how much resistance would be ideal when removing from foil. Foil for about an hour, remove (reserving juices), return to grate, then test for fork tenderness directly on the grill?

Overall I feel much more confident going into this cook than my first thanks to TVWB and the discussion forums.

I will take pictures of the cook and post them in this thread…

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated… Thanks!
 
I am not one for long rests for briskets cooked till tender as I think it risks overcooking during the rest. I rest for 30 minutes, tented. If I know I'll need to extend the rest time then I pull when the brisket is almost tender (err on the side of closer to tender), then rest up to one hour, wrapped. (Others differ on the tender/resting issue.)

I would still take the brisket to the tenderness point you seek (tender or almost tender) before removing it from the foil. Two reasons: one, you said yourself that you do not want to complicate this cook and I quite agree--use this cook to get a better sense of it all; two, at high temps firming the bark up a bit does not take long--crisping it does but I wouldn't shoot for that at this juncture (I'm not anal about brisket bark texture so I wouldn't shoot for crispier bark ever; your choice though). I'd go for getting a good sense of the cook and deal with bark texture at a later date. A less-is-more approach of either not returning the brisket to the grate after removing it from the foil, or returning it only for a fairly brief time, say, 5-10 minutes, I think, will give you a potentially more streamlined cook and allow you to get more out of the process.

My two cents.


Kevin

P.S. The apple chip addition is one I would do. Place it near the top. It will be lost if it doesn't get going till after the foiling stage.
 
Kevin,

Thanks for the input.... It is very much appreciated and extremely helpful.

I will take your advice and cut the rest down to 30 minutes - 1 hour. With so little brisket experience I feel more comfortable judging the tenderness while finishing the cook versus putting it in the cooler and expecting the brisket to finish to my liking. Also, as you said it will become more of a streamlined process. Get comfortable with the basics and go from there.

As far as returning to the grate for a short period of time, I will judge how I feel at the time about adding the extra step to the process. I’m thinking the extra 5-10 minutes directly on the kettle may be insignificant after the hour rest in a cooler.

Another question I have is how to add the juice back into the foil before resting in the cooler. Trying to retain as much bark as possible, I would assume that I add the juice to the bottom of the foil. If I pour the juice over the brisket before foiling I think the chance of completely losing what little bark is left becomes much greater. I guess right now it may be considered a trade-off between bark or time/moisture content.

With the shorter resting period comes shorter time with the baked beans on the kettle. I figure I can offset this by putting the beans in the oven for an hour, stirring, and adding to the kettle for 30-1hr with a handful or two of soaked apple chips.

With as busy as I am during the week, friends and family think I’m crazy to want to spend an entire day hovering around the grill. I find the entire process extremely relaxing/enjoyable and it provides a great reason for family and friends to get together and enjoy some awesome food. As I learned long ago its quality over quantity! Quality of time spent together, quality of food, quality of life!

Take care.
 
Nick, really liked what you said about quality over quantity. I like to do my briskets low and slow, as well as everything else that I smoke. The fastest smoke for me so far has been baby backs and they came off after 4.5 hours, but then again, there isn't much meat there to begin with.

I was there once before when you talked about watching over the smoker all day long during lengthy smokes until I purchased a Power Draft system. My last brisket I put on at 10 pm and set the unit for 225* at the grate and 165 for the internal. I went to bed and had a great nights sleep not worried about what my brisket was doing out back. I woke up at my normal time(6 am) the next day, had a cup of java and by 7 am made my way to the backyard to check on the brisket. The grate temp was still at 225* and the internal was at 141*. I spent the next three hours out shopping for groceries that were needed to finish off the meal that I was preparing for my employer and his family. When the internal temp hit 165* the alarm went off on the unit and I went outside to pull her form the smoker so I could double wrap her in foil. I reset the internal temp to 195* and put her back on the grate for further cooking. My guests arrived at 6:15 pm and the brisket was in a towel lined cooler for about 35 minutes prior to me slicing her into nice sized slices. The brisket was very tender, extremely moist and was pretty much 100% consumed by all of us.

My point is that by switching to a power draft system, I am now able to set it and forget it and not have to worry about vent settings or if it's going to spike on me over even if it will be over cooked. The unit that I have has a ramp mode feature that will not allow that to happen.
So now I can make sure that if I am having guests or family over for some good old "Q", the only thing I worry about is; I am I going to have enough cold beer.

Hope your smoke comes out the way you want it to and you enjoy your company as well.
 
The OP is cooking with a kettle, you can still put a power draft system on it but it requires drilling a hole for the adapter.

You should give the hi-heat brisket a try sometime, many people have tried it here with excellent results.
 
Nick, I've done this in a kettle. I'm not sure about the fat down part.

I know in a vertical cooker, fat down seems to be the consensus but in a horizontical cooker I believe the consensus is fat up. Your kettle with heat coming from the side rather than below, more so resembles a horizontal cooker.

I posted how I did this here at this thread;
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9040039023/m/6750042994/p/1

Ed..not a negative slam on those that use powered systems, just another opinion...

I know there many fans of various powered systems, but think the WSM is about close to an oven as one could get (almost like a Green Egg).
By this I mean the temps can get dialed for long periods of time without any power systems or monitoring.

I seen experienced cooks (at comps) not even use a thermometer. They go by only touching their cooker, others go so far as to monitor temps by laptop assisted powered systems.

I have one brother that uses an electric pellet fed smoker (traeger) and another a home made drum. The results are similar. The bro with the drum has his cooker dialed in and knows what it takes to get and maintain certian temps.

The key especially for newbies is to get experienced in using the WSM as is and the more it's used the less one needs any help maintaining temps. I think some people fiddle with vents too much. If the temps vary by 20 degres or so it's not going to make that much of a difference in the finished product.

Like learning to drive a car with a stick vs. automatic. After a while the vent settings, etc. become second nature. I use to keep detailed notes of my cooks, now I just know what to do or what not to do.


John
 
Very true. (Where ya been John?)

I have a Guru I haven't used in a long time. When I got it I used it often to get the hang of it. But the idea behind getting it was for cooks where I want to keep temps very low (<200) and steady for a period of time: bacon, various sausages--those sorts of things. Well, I screwed up a wire after my second bacon cook, didn't get around to calling Guru for a replacement, but couldn't wait to smoke the stuff I had curing so I just spent a little more time getting the set-up right. (I did replace the probe soon thereafter but have still not used it again.)

As to your comments/questions, Nick: Yes, if you are going to tightly wrap and cooler the brisket after removing it from the cooker then 5-10 min to firm the bark is useless. (I do not tightly wrap--I tent--and do not cooler, in most cases (the ones I prefer). There are times when I need to hold longer and so I do wrap and cooler--but that is not my preference.)

If your brisket throws off a lot of juices (packers tend to; flats--well, it can go either way), you simply do not remove all the juices when you pull the foiled brisket from the cooker--you just remove some or most, depending on quantity.

If you decide to remove the foiled brisket from the cooker and then return it unfoiled, then unwrap the brisket, transfer it back to the grate, drain the foil into a cup. Save some, if you wish, for returning to the foil if you want to wrap the brisket when you pull it; the rest save for your sauce or jus.

I differ with John on the fat up/fat down question because--to me--heat source isn't all that germane in this scenario, a high heat cook. I prefer the fatcap on the grate because placing and removing the meat from the grate tends to remove the rub--no matter how carefully you place it and remove it. Not all, if you're careful, but enough.
 
Kevin been busy working and learning other ways to make a living besides real estate. Recently learning about futures trading. A lot of info to digest, like drinking from a fire hose.

Nick, follow Kevin's advice about the fat down.

I believe I read somewhere on a website devoted to offsets about having the fat up with offset cookers as the preferred choice and fat down with verticals.

I'm not sure it it's kosher to add a link to another web site. In Ca the owner of this site below (Laurence Hill) consistently ranks high with his briskets in KCBS contests held here on the west coast. In fact he helped Chris Lily last summer at the class I attended.

If this is not allowed I will removed this link:

http://www.blque.com/recipes.html

John
 
If I am resting the brisket for 30 minutes to an hour I may just put the finished brisket in a roast pan, cover with foil, and throw in a cool oven.

I dont want to rest the brisket on a sheet tray or cutting board due to the juices I would lose during the process.

Ive rested other cuts of meat wrapped in foil (not in cooler or oven) for 40 minutes and it did not enter the danger zone. Id imagine the same would apply for a 195ish brisket for an hour.
 
I use the microwave often for this. I open the foil when I pull the meat from the cooker, drain most of the juices, then stick the meat in the nuker and loosely close the foil. For rests of under an hour I am mostly concerned about the meat not falling below a good serving temp; not very concerned about the Danger Zone.

Meat's ability to retain moisture increases as it cools. Though there will be residual cooking regardless, not wrapping tightly for the rest allows the meat to get through its residual cooking phase more quickly and start cooling a bit. This, of course, works for shorter rests, not long ones.

However, when faced with the scenario of needing a long rest and pulling meat out of the cooker that is perfectly tender (and wishing to avoid having the residual cooking phase overcook the meat), it's worth allowing the meat to sit on the counter about 15 minutes, foil completely open, so as to curtail lengthy residual cooking. Then wrap and rest the meat, coolered. This does shorten the time one can milk the resting phase, but it lessens the chance of dramatic overcooking taking place in the foil.

(John--I bought my first house on Miami Beach using proceeds from trading corn, wheat, sugar and currencies. Heart-thumping fun. Cojones of steel often required! I've traded off and on since, but am now looking at currencies again...)
 
Ok.... it is now 11:15.

Packer is trimmed and has been in the refrigerator since 10:15 with the dry-over-paste. My guess is I lost 1 - 1.5 lb through trimming, but this is just a guess. Leaving the packer at 7.5 post trimming.

I removed a good amount of fat between the flat and the point. My reasoning behind this is to make the separation of the point from the flat a much easier/quicker process, if I decide to separate the two.

I havent decided yet if I want to remove the point or not. Im considering putting the point back on the kettle for a little while once I decide to rest the flat to firm up bark and bring up the points temp a tad more. The point is going to be wrapped and cooled for chili tomorrow evening.

Paste was taken from a Raichlen recipe... Rub has brown sugar, paprika, chili powder, salt, garlic/onion powder, fresh black pepper, cayenne, dry mustard, cumin, and a small amount of crushed bay leaf and oregano.

Transferred the leftover rub to an empty spice bottle to use for the No. 5 sauce and to reapply to the packer before adding to the kettle (Aiming for sometime between 12:30-1).

With lid temps at 340-360 and a smaller packer I am planning on a 4 hour cook time, 1 hour rest in a roasting pan covered with foil.

I plan on laying heavy smoke from the get go. Meat on cold, cold water in the loaf pan, heavy smoke.

The flat is no more than 1.5 inches thick at the thinnest point so I am considering foiling this section prior to hitting the 170 mark. We will see. Anyone have any ideas? With the high-temp cook I would assume that the thin flat is not so much of an issue due to the less rendering time, less drying out time.
 
Correct. I only put foil under the end of the flat if the packer is long and the end of the flat will be over fairly direct heat, as happens when it's squashed into a WSM.

You can return the point for further cooking if you wish. If I am planning on using the point for something else, like chili, a common thing for me, I never do, preferring to finish the cooking of the point in the chili itself, or in whatever it is I'm making with it.
 
Kevin,

What do you use to store your knives?

A chef I know just gave me a few of his extra Forschner Edge-Mags.... I haven't invested in a nice set of knives yet, but they do a very good job of keeping the Calphalon's I have sharp and safe. They are much more durable/heavy duty than the previous knife guards I've seen.

He has two Kyocera ceramics that are top notch... At $100 or so a knife I figure I should invest in a WSM before I step up to the plate and invest in a nice set of knives. The Calphalon's with regular straightening seem to get the job done.
 
For my house knives I use magnet bars which are on the side of my fridge, just a quick pivot from the prep island. For the knives I travel with, a knife/tool attaché from Victorinox. Edge-mags are great though.
 
Update:

The brisket has been on for 1.5 hours now... Meat temp started at 41... its currently 141.

Meat went on with lid temp at 180... 40 minutes later lid temp was up to 320... heavy smoke.

I left the kettle for 15 minutes to speak with someone and came back and the temp was 450! I didnt start closing down the vents soon enough. I was hoping for no spikes TOO large, but the only thing I could do at the time was deal with it best I knew how.

I closed down all vents and had it down to 370 in 10 minutes. 20 minutes of high temps and the meat temp went up 30 degrees. Id imagine it will lessen the smoke ring, but im not too concerned about that... what im going for today is taste/texture.

Since that point it has been fairly steady between 320-360... I contribute these wide temps due to a number of reasons:

- a good amount of wood mixed in and if a piece catches it can throw temps... if Im standing by the kettle and a strong wind comes through I can hear the wood begin to crackle.

- the probe wire is coming out under the side of the lid, leaving a crack... if a heavy wind comes through it could raise temps.. next cook i will bring the probe wire up through top vent where the lid therm is resting

- not shutting down the vents soon enough..

here are some pictures...





EDIT: Something I forgot to add. The paste on the bottom of the brisket soaked through the dry rub due to the weight of the brisket pressing down... the top should be fine... the bottom was very sticky as I put it on the grill... maybe it will firm up due to the sugar in it, but who knows.
 
OK.

Im at 3.5 hours and I still haven't reached 170. Lid temps have been in the 340-370 range since the 450 spike. Ive been sitting at 161-163 for the past hour. Should I go ahead and foil?

Hopefully this stall will help the foiling part of the cook go a little faster. I will probably only rest the brisket for 15-20 minutes tented in foil when its done.

I have cheated and lifted the lid once, about 30 minutes ago and touched the surface of the brisket... no bark, just mush.

Just jumped to 164, so were still cooking. Looking at the bright side, this stall has given me steady lid temps and enough room to make the sides.
 
for some reason i've had great success(for me) with my briskets on my kettle. i don't like them pull apart so i cook them to about 195-198 internal and then foil and rest for at least an hour. i consider a high temp cook at 250-275. my cooks usually last around the 9 hour mark. will be interesting to see what yer high temp cook produces. looking for pulled style or chew?
 
Ok... I foiled at 169.... it had been 4 hours in the cook and I couldnt wait any longer.

Lid temps are around 410 now, and hopefully the remainder of the cook.

I probed the point and the center of the flat. Im thinking an hour should be sufficient, but I am not pulling this one early!

Here it is right before foiling.

I removed the drip pan and am separating the fat to put together the sauce in 15-20 minutes.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top