Getting steady temp for long cook


 
D

Dan - MI

New member
I purchased a 22.5 WSM recently and have tried two brisket (a flat and a point), a turkey breast, and a pork shoulder. So far I'm having trouble with the temp. I've used the Minion Method for starting, using two chimneyfuls of unlit coals and about 1/2 chimney of lit coals. Water pan with water (1gal). Outside temps have been at least 80+ degrees.
The WSM gets up to temp very slow (all vents full open)...struggle to get to 225-250. When it does I close the bottom vents to 50% and within 3-4 hours I start losing temp. I had to finish both the pork and turkey in the oven.
The unit seems to be sealed OK.
Any suggestions?
 
Dan, unless you have a therm issue, it's charcoal issues rather than cooker issues.

Maybe your's has been exposed to moisture somewhere recently? Also, even though that's very little meat and only a gallon of water, I'd start with more lit, especially if cooking in wind.

One other thing, for some reason, I'll have trouble with temps getting up if I mix Kingsford with other brands. I have no idea, but I just don't like to mix it anymore, and leftover briqs will put out less btu's, K especially.
 
Dave,
How would I tell if I have a therm issue. Is this something common with WSMs?
When you say Its may have been subject to moisture are you referring to the WSM? It has been kept covered at all times. My fuel is kept in dry environment.
 
Dan,

What kind of charcoal are you using?

When you start losing temp after 3-4 hours, did you look at the charcoal? Was it all gone, all burned up? Or was there still a lot left?

Lots of people have been sent on wild temperature goose chases by an occasional bad thermometer, so you should check it for accuracy.

It's easy to remove, just take off the wing nut. Bring some water to a boil in a wide pot and carefully submerge most of the stem into the water. Don't drop it or you're screwed! If it's not right around 212*F +/- 5*F it's bad. If so, call Weber at 800-446-1071 and request a free replacement.

Thermometers are relatively new to the WSM, just added about 3 years ago. Some guys opt for higher quality therms from suppliers like Tel-Tru. Or if you've already got a probe thermometer, you can test it in boiling water for accuracy and then stick that through one of the top vent holes to check your temp.

Regards,
Chris
 
I'm using either Kingsford Blue,Competition or lump. When I check the charcoal its almost all gone. I have an oven thermometer that I have on the grill and once up to heat it synches pretty close with the lid thermo.
Do I need to shut my valves more that 50%, maybe no water in the water pan?
What's this about a therm issue (re. Dave above)?
Where are all these long cooks I keep reading about?
 
Originally posted by Dan:
I'm using either Kingsford Blue,Competition or lump. When I check the charcoal its almost all gone. I have an oven thermometer that I have on the grill and once up to heat it synches pretty close with the lid thermo.
Do I need to shut my valves more that 50%, maybe no water in the water pan?
What's this about a therm issue (re. Dave above)?
Where are all these long cooks I keep reading about?
Click to expand...

Dan, even though both your oven therm and the Weber gauge both seem to end up the same, I'd still check the gauge in boiling water as Chris suggested. The Weber gauge isn't the best, and I prefer to hang a probe therm through the top vent.

Sounds to me like you're cooking hotter than you think though, assuming you're starting with enough charcoal. The 22.5" wsm isn't as efficient as the smaller one, but it's easier to refuel with charcoal since the door is larger. Regarding water in the pan, ESPECIALLY since you're smoking little meat relative to the size cooker, I'd stick with some water in the pan. Higher humidity in the cooker means slower meat surface evaporation, but I'll go ahead and mention that over or undercooking is more important for moist bbq.
 
Dan,

I would eliminate the variable of using different kinds of charcoal and focus on just one until you get this sorted out. I would suggest Kingsford Blue since it burns longer than Kingsford competition and is more consistent than lump.

Re: Dave's comment of "therm issue", he just means an inaccurate thermometer. As I mentioned in my previous post, some have complained about the accuracy of the thermometers Weber's using. I would recommend you test it as I described so you can eliminate that as a variable.

You did not mention what kind of charcoal chimney you are using. Weber's chimney has greater capacity than most--about 6 quarts or 100 briquets. If you're using another brand, you may be starting with 20% less charcoal than people using a Weber chimney.

You mentioned that you cook in warm temps, about 80*F or higher ambient temperature. Is it windy where your cooker is situated? Wind can suck the heat right out of these metal cookers. If so, move to a protected location or create some sort of wind break.

Re: Your question about shutting the vents more than 50%, the point of opening or closing vents is to regulate temperature so the cooker runs at the temp you want. So if you've got them set at 50% and it runs at 225-250*F for up to 4 hours, that's a good thing. If you shut them more, the temp would drop. If you open them more, the temp should increase. So I think the answer to your question is "no".

Just so we're not taking anything for granted...now moving into less common territory...Do you have the lid vent 100% open during the entire cook? Do you have the water pan sitting on the bottom flanges in the middle cooking section? Please don't be offended, but we've had people place the water pan right on top of the charcoal chamber, in direct contact with the coals, which of course smothers the fire. Even celebrity chefs can make this mistake.

If we determine that your thermometer is accurate to within +/-5*F and you don't have the water pan sitting directly on the charcoal
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, then I have to think you're just not using enough charcoal to begin with. The 22.5" is a big cooker and it takes a lot more fuel to bring it up to temp than with the 18.5", and even though you're cooking very little (ie a single turkey breast or a single pork shoulder) it's going to take a lot of fuel to keep that big cooker going at 250*F for 8 hours.

One test you can try, since Kingsford Blue is pretty cheap, is to just fill that charcoal chamber all the way to the top, then pour that 1/2 chimney of unlit on top. Add your meat and water, open those bottom vents 100%. Don't worry too much about how long it takes to come up to 250*F. Adjust your bottom vents to 50% in order to maintain 250*F. Keep that top vent wide open. See how long it will run at 250...it should be more than 4 hours.

The long cooks you're hearing about do exist. We've just got to keep eliminating variables until we help you figure it out.

Regards,
Chris
 
You know, the more I re-read what I wrote, and the more I think about how I've used the 22.5" WSM, I'm becoming convinced that you're not starting with enough fuel.

I would test the therm and then skip right to that fully-loaded charcoal chamber with half a chimney of hot briquets on top that I talked about.

You have to remember that you bought a big cooker, and it's going to take a certain amount of fuel just to get it up to operating temperature even with no water or meat inside--probably more fuel than you think. Just because you're cooking a single turkey breast or pork shoulder doesn't mean you can get away with less fuel usage.

Regards,
Chris
 
Dan, I believe Chris is right on. I have done 8 hour smokes with about 1/2 a charcoal ring full, and 18 hour smokes with a full ring in the 22 without adding fuel. My cook temps are usually 225.

As Chris suggested...go ahead and use good ol' K blue and fill the ring up with unlit. Light 1/2 (maybe closer to 3/4?) a chimney, make a little "well" in the middle of your charcoal ring, and pour the lit ones in the well.

Also, about the water pan...fill it with HOT water, boiling if possible. You are burning up fuel just trying to get the water to 212*. Adding hot water should help get you up to temp quicker and not burn so much charcoal.

Don't worry about wasting charcoal this way... when you are done smoking, simply close all the vents and you'll smother the fire. The next time you cook, you simply knock off the ashes, then pour fresh charcoal over what was left from the last smoke.

Hope this helps!

JJ
 
Originally posted by James Jacobson:
...make a little "well" in the middle of your charcoal ring, and pour the lit ones in the well.
Click to expand...
Just want to clarify for Dan that the original Minion Method has you just spread the lit coals evenly over the unlit, as I assume you've been doing. Folks have come up with numerous variations over the years, like making a well in the center of the unlit charcoal and putting the hot coals there, or pouring unlit charcoal around a bottomless coffee can, pouring the lit coals inside, then removing the can.

Honestly, I'd suggest you just keep things simple and do what makes sense to you. The key here is consistency, eliminating variables, to discover what's up with your situation.

Regards,
Chris
 
OK, just got home from work and been reading all the great help from everyone out there. Thanks for all the great suggestions.
First, I checked the thermo on the WSM, also on a remote digital, and standard kitchen probe. The Weber was spot on, between 210/215, the other two registered 210, so no problems there.
I'm using the Weber chimney starter, and will continue to use the K-Blue exclusively until we get this figured out.
My top vent is open 100% at all times during the cook, and the water pan is right where it should be. But, good points to bring out. BTW, hilarious pic of Bobby Flay!
I'm beginning to believe that I'm not starting with enough fuel as well. Tomorrow, I'm going to use the Standard Method and see if I get the right temp for 4-6 hours.
James, also great point re. starting with boiling water in the pan. I've been using tap water which could be using a significant amount of energy just to get cooker up to temp.
Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.
 
OK, here it is Sunday...the only day I have to do a good cook on. I put a rack of ribs on at 12:45. I'm using the BRITU method described elsewhere on this website. I started with 1 lit chimney of briqs, then added a chimney of unlit, and when they were going added the wood (apple), and then put on the ribs.
12:45 Temp. Vent 1 0 Vent2 0 Vent3 0
1:00 233 0 0 0
1:30 205 1/4 0 0
2:00 205 1/2 1/2 1/2
As you can see, I'm already starting to lose temp. The current temp here is 74 and there is a 10mph breeze. I was going to boil the water for the water pan, but in the BRITU method Chris recommended using cold tap...to I compromised with hot tap water.
I just did my 2:00 reading and opened the vents to 1/2.
Chris, I read your log and there is now way I can keep the bottom vents closed and maintain my heat.
Will update in another hour or so.
 
Well, I'm done with this cook and very discouraged. My data from 2:30 on is as follows:
2:30 205 vent1: 100% open vent2: 1/2 vent3: 1/2
3:00 195 100 1/2 1/2
3:30 210 100 100 1/2
4:00 (t) 205 100 100 1/2
4:30 195 100 100 100
5:00 200 100 100 100
At 5:00 I removed the meat (rack of baby backs, and 2.25# of Polish Kielbasa).
At 4 or 4:30 while checking the vents I did notice that my bottom heat shield (ash catcher
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) was not seated on
the legs properly and there was only about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of clearance. I was able to reseat it properly and it
allows for more air flow at the bottom of the smoker. While I can't believe that would have anything to do with internal
ventilation, is it possible it might have something to do with this whole mess?
 
Dan, don't give up yet. Do you have a stick therm or a remote temp probe? Hang one in the exhaust vent and leave it there. Fill the ring full of unlit charcoal and put 15-20 lit on top, fill the water pan with hot tap water and assemble the unit with all vents 100% open and do a test run. Until you know your cooker always start with a full ring of charcoal and always keep the bottom vents at the same setting, no need to set them at different posittions at all! You should have no trouble reaching 275 with water. Your not foiling your cooking grates are you?
 
and when they were going added the wood (apple),
Click to expand...
I never use the Standard Method as I do not care for it, but in this case 'they' weren't going good enough. In that case the lower vents need to be left alone - 100% open - until it is obvious a good draft and temp rise is established.
 
Kevin, they coals were definately going good enough. They were all ash covered and the chunks of apple wood were on fire, per Chris's instruction and pics on cooking the BRITU ribs.
Chris, I was reading your test cooks in the Product Info section. You did 5 tests, ranging from baby backs, chicken, pork butts and briskets. Is it possible that you logged those cooks, and if so can we see them? Or, can you e-mail them to me?
I'm convinced I can get this right, but I'm disappointed about the amount of fuel I'm going to need to do it.
 
Doing a "dry run" with no meat is pretty cheap when you think about it. Try that next time. I'd stick with Minion method (fill the charcoal ring, then 1/2 chimney of lit) and don't close the bottom vents...let'er rip full open until you get to temp, or real close (do the water pan filled, too.) Then close down to 1/2 on all of them and monitor. If the temp overshoots, you can close down to 1/4 or even all closed at the bottom. If it still won't come down (usually it will) you can even close the top vent. Your problem seems to be getting up to temp, so it is probably better to overshoot and bring it back down.

Later in the burn, if you start to lose temp, sometimes it is because of ash buildup. You might have to open the door and knock some ash off, or create pathways for air to flow. I have an old fireplace "poker" I use to create some airspace. Just be careful not to get a bunch of ash floating around in the air.

The thing is...most people cook too hot, so the water pan helps with that. You seem to be having trouble getting up to temp. Even if you overshoot and go to 250 or 275 (Harry Soo, a big-time winner on the circuit, BBQ's his ribs at 275) you can still have good Q. Just be sure and get your fire really going, and then you can bring her back by closing vents.

JJ
 
James...Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that this weekend. I work in a restaurant and my hours are such that I can only do low and slow on Sundays. Bummer. But I'm going to give it a shot then. Thanks again.
P.S. Did have some awesome chicken on the Performer tonight though. MMMMMM
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