? for how fast to cook butts on bottom grate w/ no foil


 

Dave Russell

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Hey, everybody.
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In the fridge sit four avg. 8 pounders to smoke for Tuesday's supper (two for the neighbors), and I was wanting to do a day cook for a change. I'm wanting to use foil for the pan, not for the butts... as long as they cooperate.
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(My experience thus far is LONG overnighters.)

I know, butts are "forgiving" and all, but just HOW fast do I dare go with a cooker full, not sacrificing the bark of the bottom two? (I learned first hand the other day how chewy the bark can end up if cooking spares on the bottom grate with a vent temp of almost 300*.
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FYI, I've smoked butts as fast as 8.5 hours or so on my old UDS, but my concern is that even though that was direct, the roasts were not NEAR as close to the coals as the two that will be on my wsm's bottom rack... AND on the drum, I FLIPPED 'em at least a couple of times.

Anyway, I know most folks only cook two or three at the most, but if you've got much experience cooking four avg. butts at a time on the little wsm, what's the highest vent temp you'd dare target, and what time would they need to go on if supper is at six?

My guess is to cook no higher than 275 at the vent, but I'm not sure about how early to start. BTW, the last time I asked anything like this, I only got replies from folks that foil during the cook, or that I should stick with the long overnighters. I know that one member here claims that 8 pounders cooked at 275 on his wsm are ALWAYS done in nine hours, and Gary Wiviott says to start two seven pounders on the top grate at nine hours before suppper...but then again, Wiviott's a little ambiguous about temps, to say the least.
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I have cooked many shoulders at 300. If the pan is dry the bottom will be done 1-2hrs earlier than the top. I wouldn't worry about swapping the butts, just take it off when ready. Is the bark thicker tougher than a 250 deg cook? Yes, but not that bad at all. The rest in foil for at least 30min will soften it back up.
 
Thanks a bunch, Glenn, for the the cooking temp input. That sure relieves me, since I wasn't too happy with some of my spares the other day when I had temps in the 280-295 range for the better part of the cook.

What do you think as to "times"...figuring that the butts will only be out of the fridge long enough for me to get two chimneys (each half full) of briquettes ashed over? vent at 275? vent at 300? What's your best guess with four eight pounders?

Thanks for pointing out that the bottom two will be done that much sooner. I'll leave my Maverick probe in one of those, and if I need to, the top two can both be the leftovers, not for supper that night.

I really appreciate the input. While I'm thinking about it, you ever thought about the use of the "Piedmont Pan", particularly as being useful to catch all the meat drippings? I've got a quart of some of the best N. Carolina style sop that I've ever come up with in the fridge, and the only thing that would make it better as a finishing sauce would be a good amount of meat drippings after I skimmed the fat off.

Thanks again!
 
Curious on why the 2 half full chimneys of lit?

Once up to 225 vent you should be done at about 1-1.25hrs per lb at 300. I like to start with 1 chimney half full so the come up is slow for smoke ring and smoke penetration, if you have time. Although if you try to rush the temp up with this load of meat you will burn ALOT of your fuel doing so. Thought about the piedmont mod but it seems it would be easier to clean by replacing foil. Also sometimes I use the clay saucer and water. I do however use the Brinkman cc pan instead of the stock one.
 
I found this in an old post by Steve Petrone about the "Piedmont water Pan":

"...My last few cooks have been with pwp using foil balls in the top pan covered with foil like the guys do with the temp control devices. That way you can use the drippings as they do not burn. In addition I have been raising my cook temps to 250 to 275. Butts are wonderfull and they finnish in 12 to 14 hous instead of 16 to 18 as I had previously done..."

I sure wish Steve posted here more, but that's sure helpful to me since I know he often cooks a few butts at a time using both grates like I typically do.
 
Originally posted by Glenn W:
Curious on why the 2 half full chimneys of lit?

Once up to 225 vent you should be done at about 1-1.25hrs per lb at 300. I like to start with 1 chimney half full so the come up is slow for smoke ring and smoke penetration, if you have time. Although if you try to rush the temp up with this load of meat you will burn ALOT of your fuel doing so. Thought about the piedmont mod but it seems it would be easier to clean by replacing foil. Also sometimes I use the clay saucer and water. I do however use the Brinkman cc pan instead of the stock one.

Thanks. Just thinking about how slow my cooker is in getting up to temp with four cold pork butts. Regarding the Piedmont pan, I'm wondering if there's a good way to collect my drippings.
 
I'm wondering if there's a good way to collect my drippings

I have a middle grate that I sometimes put a pan on about halfway of a butt cook for a couple hours (when they release a lot of fat). Not a fan of using the drippings that have been on for the duration of the cook, I think those are way over smoky tasting for my taste. You could cook one of them in a small pan elevated on a rack toward the end to collect some though.
 
I always cook fat side down on butts and briskets, I would strongly recommend this on the bottom rack for sure!
 
Originally posted by Glenn W:
I always cook fat side down on butts and briskets, I would strongly recommend this on the bottom rack for sure!

Oh yeah. I don't think I've flipped anything to fat up since I got my wsm. I'd think that rotating might help, but I haven't seen the need cooking at low-n-slow temps. They all have cooked even enough, except for the one time I cooked three on the top rack, or five total.
 
I did that for the first time on my rib cook the other day.
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From now on though, I'll try to have my Thermapen on me so I can stick through my eyelet and check the variances. Great tip. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by Dave Russell:
I found this in an old post by Steve Petrone about the "Piedmont water Pan":

"...I have been raising my cook temps to 250 to 275. Butts are wonderfull and they finnish in 12 to 14 hous instead of 16 to 18 as I had previously done..."

I sure wish Steve posted here more, but that's sure helpful to me since I know he often cooks a few butts at a time using both grates like I typically do.

Anybody care to weigh in on Steve's time/temp assessment there? By those times, I'm guessing at the vent.
 
I have no idea how much it matters, but assume the same temp target with a cooker full of butts: I'm pretty convinced you'll get different cooking times depending on where your probe is, ie. middle top grate vs. hanging in dome vent. How much? No clue, and I'm sure it depends on several factors, like the weather and how cold the meat started off at.

Anyway, I guess the better queastion is why Steve Petrone said his butts were getting done in 12-14 cooking at 250-275, while another self proclaimed wsm expert says his eight pound butts are always done in nine hours if cooking at 275, with no foiling. My best guess is that maybe the former cooks with both grates full and the latter only cooks one or two on the top, perhaps with the probe centrally located on the grate next to cold meat. I have no clue.
 
Dave,

Late last night I find out that I am supposed to cook 40# of pork for dinner Wednesday (I will get more in to that in another topic) so I pulled out some logs for my larger cooks to start to plan, as I work 9-5. I have several logs of 9 lbs butts. 1/2 of them took 8-10 hours, 1/2 of them took 12-14, all cooking 220-240. They have minds of their own.

I have switched exclusively to a new butcher over the past 6 months. Lately a 10# butt at 250-260 has been taking me 15-16 hours. Of course last weekend I had a 10 lb butt go 17.
 
Josh, I've only cooked 40 pounds one time, and it's the only time I ever had a problem with cooking evenness.

Anyway, I appreciate the cook times. Basically, from what I've read here and on another site, it seems that guys that cook at 250 or higher, measured with a probe on the top grate between two butts, seem to report getting their bbq done in around 1.5 hr per pound. However, my experience cooking 225-250 at the vent has been 1.75-2 hours a pound, and that doesn't work for me unless I'm cooking overnight....ok, to be honest, I mean it doesn't work for my wife.
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Originally posted by Dave Russell:
I have no idea how much it matters, but assume the same temp target with a cooker full of butts: I'm pretty convinced you'll get different cooking times depending on where your probe is, ie. middle top grate vs. hanging in dome vent. How much? No clue, and I'm sure it depends on several factors, like the weather and how cold the meat started off at.

Anyway, I guess the better queastion is why Steve Petrone said his butts were getting done in 12-14 cooking at 250-275, while another self proclaimed wsm expert says his eight pound butts are always done in nine hours if cooking at 275, with no foiling. My best guess is that maybe the former cooks with both grates full and the latter only cooks one or two on the top, perhaps with the probe centrally located on the grate next to cold meat. I have no clue.
And you won't, really, even if those questions are answered.

I don't recall Steve doing large cooks. Maybe. Doesn't matter. 'Accuracy' of temp at grate level in a packed cooker would be, in a word, suspect.

Focusing on another's cooktemp might help but quite possibly won't. Too many variables at play. Better to focus on the relative difference of, say, the way Steve was doing it before and what he then did, and relate that to what you've been doing and what you'd like to do. Then just go for it, keeping an eye on things and making adjustments if needed as you go. Even if you nail every perceived variable of someone else's cook exactly, there are many vague and unperceived variables that can result in a different outcome - or maybe not.

As examples: The last full cooker, higher heat butt cook I did I was at at least 300 lid. No bark issues but I rotated top to bottom. I do spares much higher, rotating if it looks necessary, with no bark issues. Why the difference between your experiences and mine? Dunno. I know my therm is accurate and I am sure you know yours is. There are other variables at play.

Cooking outside is not like cooking inside in an oven. Though this is obvious, more than a few outdoor cooks get frustrated when they try to do the same as someone else but the cook comes out differently, taking longer or shorter, or with some other sort of difference to the result.

Differences between cooks of apparently closely similar variables - even differences within a cook - lead sometimes to frustration, and lead many to believe there is such a thing as 'stubborn' butts and to repeat the barbecue myth that 'every piece of meat is different'. Cooks - the individual people and the individual cooking sessions - can be quite different, despite similar appearances.
 
Originally posted by JSMcdowell:
...I have several logs of 9 lbs butts. 1/2 of them took 8-10 hours, 1/2 of them took 12-14, all cooking 220-240. They have minds of their own...

BTW, I don't know about variances THAT huge. Sure you didn't foil along the way somewhere or measure temps differently? Supposedly, pork is really very standardized nowadays, and I'm REALLY surprised by the 8-10 hour times. I've cooked on a few different cookers, and the only time I've ever got that with a gauge reading 240 was on my UDS, but the center of the drum was probably 275+.
 
Only time I have ever foiled a butt is at the end of a longer cook trying to speed up the couple hours.

I have always temped at the lid with the same thermo, and check it's accuracy every couple of smokes.

However, I did not have a consistent butcher back then and grabbed them from different places (Walmart, farmer's market, butchers).

Since going to the same butcher and getting the meat from the same supplier cut the same way each time, my cooks are much more consistent. You can buy 2 butts at the same weight from 2 different sources and them be a completely different shape.

For my 4 butt cook Tuesday night, I am putting them on at 6 PM Tuesday to have them done between 11 am - 1 pm Wednesday. Then into the cooler to rest till 5 PM to be pulled.
 

 

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