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First Brisket Results w/photos


 
Jeff R

Jeff R

TVWBB Pro
Well, the first brisketis in the books. Unfortunatly while I was happy with the execution, I was dissapointed in the results.

17.5 lbs untrimmed, estimated to be 15.5 lbs trimmed. Cooked 19.5 hours at 225 avg, cooler for 2.5

Pros:
Had the local grocery order a packer for me to do my own trimming. That went well from all the tutorials I read/watched and was happy with my trimming

Used water for the first time and was able to keep the temps 225-235 the entire time (19.5 hours) Went 15 hours on first ring.

Fought the urge to change plans in mid cook and followed through with what I knew.

Cons:
Brisket was dry and tasted like a pot roast.
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I decided to go simple as many recommended. No mop, no foil, no flipping.

Observations/Outcome:
Applied rub about 12 hours in advance and wrapped in saran wrap. I noticed no moisture or juice pulled to the surface as with other meat. Some what concerning.

After 12 hours was concerned how dry it looked an that of a meteorite. That is what I have read about so I din't panic.

Finally around 180* I started to see a few shiny drops on the surface like I do with ribs when they start to render down. OK I think, here comes the juicy part. Never happened any further.

Temp seemed to hit a second stall around 181. Not probe tender but getting there. Finally broke and got to 185 in timely mannor once it did break. At this time, flat was a little more probe tender, but still not butter. The point as been at butter tender for some time now.

Seemed stuck at 185 now and any hope for selfbasting was declining. I made the decision to pull since I saw no futher hope of the probe feeling like butter

After a 2.5 hour rest in the cooler, it was time to see what my 21 hours of total time got me. The point peeled right off the flat without even using a knife. Super moist and stringly like a good chuck. Removed the fat cap and flipped over. Time to slice the flat.

Flat sliced well with only a little crumbling on the edges. Texture was what I think you are looking for. Good bend, elasticity in the pull on the slice with minimul resistence. Was able to slice as thin as I desired. But the overall taste was that of a pot roast and dry. I am thinking it is just the piece of meat as I felt good with everything I had done. I have read that 17 lb's come from older steers and not always the best. Can I blame it on that
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or should I look elsewhere.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble if you are still reading and here are the pics.

Untrimmed
IMG_0136.JPG


Trimmed
IMG_0137.JPG


The Flat
IMG_0143.JPG


The Point
IMG_0142.JPG
 
one you didn't get to temp cuz thats what happens at those cooking temps. but just saying that, it seems its over cooked kinda. i would suggest doing a high heat cook 275-350 to soft probe and let us know. all of my cooks though not perfect were soft and moist with liquid pooling on the top always.
 
I preffer the smaller briskets @ around. 11 to 12#, they seem to be easier to cook. It's something about which side the steer uses to get up off the ground. The bigger muscle is used more, therefor it's leaner. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...
 
I am no means the brisket quru,I almost always use a water pan, run at 230 to 250,almost always use hickory....usually use a modified Willie's rub found in the "smoke and spice" book...like Jim H is cook 10 to 12 pounders and usually use a coffee, beer and cider mop sauce. My cooks normally go for about 10 hours(heck if I got the smoker fired up I am in no HURRY)and run 4 hours no foil, 4 foiled with some mop, last bit u foiled to try and get the bark back! Always comes out super moist, tons of flavor and almost never use sauce! That's what works for me. Not turning the meat in at a comp, just feeding the family and friends! I suggest try a few things, use a log and it will come together!
 
I'm with george.

Rubs don't 'pull' moisture to the surface. Salt does. I salt first - like 20 min before the meat goes in the cooker - then apply a saltless rub over the meat after the salt has drawn some moisture, about 10-15 min after salting. There is no need to rub hours ahead of time. You can, but don't worry about moisture or any lack thereof.

I prefer 10- to 12-pound briskets too. But I can't always find them. I done dozens of 17-pounders. Though I much prefer cooking at high heat I went years doing low/slow. If you want to cook low/slow bump your temp to 250. Lower and slower does not equal better, especially if cooking Select or the lower end of Choice.

You're not looking for 'self-basting'. That means nothing. Any moisture that forms on the surface is going to either evaporate or run off. It is not going to soak into the meat. What you're looking for - but cannot see - is rendering inside. If the meat is probe tender - the flat, not the point - it is done, and need rest only 20 min or so, tented. If almost probe tender you can rest it wrapped, maybe an 45 minutes to an hour (you can check it at this point) - and that should be all it needs at low temps. The rest time should be shorter if cooking at higher temps. Stretching the rest out on a brisket that is tender or almost tender can lead to an overcooked finish as residual cooking - even gentle residual cooking - can overcook the brisket. Cooking on the low side of low/slow can make this worse.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
If you want to cook low/slow bump your temp to 250. Lower and slower does not equal better, especially if cooking Select or the lower end of Choice...

...If the meat is probe tender - the flat, not the point - it is done, and need rest only 20 min or so, tented. If almost probe tender you can rest it wrapped, maybe an 45 minutes to an hour (you can check it at this point) - and that should be all it needs at low temps. The rest time should be shorter if cooking at higher temps. Stretching the rest out on a brisket that is tender or almost tender can lead to an overcooked finish as residual cooking - even gentle residual cooking - can overcook the brisket. Cooking on the low side of low/slow can make this worse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff, while I agree with everything Kevin said, I think the above comments I've quoted are of the most pertinence to why your dry brisket. It really confirms my own experience and what I've read from others concerning cooking briskets too low and residual cooking in foil...which pertains to butts as well, for that matter. As to my past posts stressing holding briskets, I think I've often pulled 'em off the cooker "al dente", and that's the only reason they ended up fine after holding so long. I'm a better rib and butt cook than brisket cook because I cook more pork, I guess.

Anyways, never tried to fit a brisket over 15 lbs or so on my 18.5", but 14 pounders cooked with water in the pan and no foiling are most often off the wsm after about 1hr/lb. or so, and they were done even faster than that when I cooked over direct heat on my drums.

Regarding the guys that recommend smoking 'em at 225*, like Chris Lilly, I don't know. I do know that Chris says his (10-12 lb. recommended) "Bare Naked Brisket"(no foil) should be done after 8-10 hours on the 225* cooker and then resting 1 hr. covered in a pan.
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Evidently, his cooker cooks differently than any cooker I've ever had, and I'm right when I say that. Temp isn't everything, and cookers do all cook differently. The bullet is slow, but guess what temp Weber says is ideal for smoking most meats. 250*.

Sorry for rambling about cooking temps, but the only other thing I'd reiterate is what I probably posted before you cooked. Even though I don't often do it, foiling is cheap insurance against a dry brisket. You might do everything "right" and end up with a piece of meat that just wasn't a good candidate to start with.

Hope that helps, and better luck next time. You haven't bbq-ed briskets until you ended up with a dry one.
 
Dave/Kevin, Thanks for the additional info. I hear you about residual cooking while resting. One thing I didn't callout earlier is that when removed from the foil, the foil was dry and almost clean. This tells me the brisket was dry going into rest.

Towards the end of the cook I felt I had two choices. Pull it off before it was tender (and perhaps not dry inside) or cook to almost tender and hope for the best. As it was it came off "al dente" as you say.

My take away from all the additional learning in the above is I cooked it at to low of temp. Perhaps this allowed for a long slow evaporation to occur while the meat took too long to cook and break down.

Now some good news. I bagged the leftovers in a ziploc and refridgerated. I am my own worst critic, but it was better the next day. It was even good enough to take into work and share. No money was lost in this brisket
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There ya go, Jeff.

Good observation on the lack of juice in the foil, and it's always a good thing when your leftovers tell you that the cook went better than you thought.
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By the way, what size wsm did you cook it on?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:

By the way, what size wsm did you cook it on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cook on a 22
 
Kevin and Dave are spot on! Kevin's last sentence is the key! Brisket's shouldn't take more than 1.25 hrs per lb on average, thickness is key not weight (this applies to all cuts of Q). There is a reason that Sous Vide cooks use a vaccum sealed bag to cook the meat in. I don't find any value in cooking less than 250 for normal Q. Sounds like the water did hold your temps nice and steady though!

Good luck and try again
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Jeff, Until WE get as good as the Pro's here, WE should use the best Brisket cuts available. Yours was a Valiant Effort Sir. I noticed from your 1st pic very little marbling in the cut. That coupled with the size of the cut made it a tuff from the Get-Go. It's a big deal getting the right grade of brisket around here anyway.

Looks like you did all you could do to make it right. It's only cost me about $150 over several cheap briskets to learn this. One good one is much less expensive. The fact that you mentioned no grade label on the cryovac tells me it's a lesser grade cut.

I too would go with higher heat. Around 250-270* in the WSM with water.

I noticed your last pic shows done to dry on the outside well into the meat and the center looks good. Also, that's a very nice smoke ring.

Just my .02 compared to the Experts above.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill S.:
Jeff...Looks good.I don't see much fat cap left on it though. Maybe over trimmed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff,

It's hard to tell how thick the bottom fat cap is since the brisket's laying on it. Looks like you trimmed some of the fat out of the point/flat seam. I got a little over-zealous trimming a brisket I did two weekends ago and it turned out pretty much like yours did. I did another one about the same weight last weekend and didn't trim it at all, and I got much better results. Leaving all or at least some of the fat intact seemed to keep things more moist, though it could be just that last weekend's victim was a better-marbled brisket.

BTW, I'm a convert to the high heat method. This last one I had the smoker at 350-360* the whole 6 hours it was on. I foiled at 168* and took it off the smoker at 182*, though I still felt some resistance when probing it with an instant-read thermometer. It was a lot more juicy than the ones I'd tried to get to "fork tender."

Keep at it. I've done 6 briskets since getting my WSM and am just getting to the point where I feel like I have a chance at getting consistently good results. The pros on this forum will save us a lot of trial-and-error.

Dave
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill S.:
Jeff...Looks good.I don't see much fat cap left on it though. Maybe over trimmed? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bottom fat cap came about 1/2" so I didn't touch it. I did remove most of the fat line between the two pieces during trimming as I thought I was supposed to.
 
No need to trim at all. I rarely bother. If the knob of fat on the side, where point meets flat, is especially thick I might remove some of it. That's about it.
 
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