Steve Hoch
TVWBB Platinum Member
I imagine that if you had a vast collection of orifices in varying sizes you could eventually dial a grill in to your liking. I would personally rather just get the correct manifold and avoid the hassle.
E330 NG and LP manifold and valve side by side comparison
- Thread starter DanHoo
- Start date
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
I guess I would answer it this way.
For me 330F min temp is fine. I use my E330 as a direct grill for burgers or for quick veggie cooks when I'm too lazy to light coal. I also use it as an outdoor oven in summer when the A/C is running and I don't want to turn an oven on indoors. It is very easy to hold 350, 375 or 400F.
If this was someone's only grill I think 330F min is too hot and would recommend against doing an orifice only swap. Even 275 is on the high side of low IMO.
I'll check min temps on my genesis 1000 this weekend, but I seem to remember it holding 225F.
I seem to recall my Silver B would not get below 250.
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DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
no idea. This was the kit I bought.
Ed P
TVWBB Platinum Member
As long as the LO orifice (drilled hole) in the valve spool is smaller than the orifice at the exit of the valve, I think changing the exit orifice would have a minimal effect on LO temps. And the drilled hole is larger on the NG spool, and it needs to be smaller, so you're kind of stymied there. Changing the exit orifice would mostly affect the HI end of things, to my way of thinking.
But I agree, Steve...
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
Yeah, I agree the proper way is to get the correct manifold. Price and availability have been an issue.
Looks like burners are different for the NG version and the LP version. They sure look the same to me but they are listed separately.
LP: https://www.grillparts.com/weber/2011_genesis_300.asp?product_id=62752
NG: https://www.grillparts.com/weber/2011_genesis_300.asp?product_id=62799
Ed P
TVWBB Platinum Member
I read part of a research paper on gas burners, and there is so much more involved in this than what we mere mortals can ever understand. One of the smart things I think you did was buy a kit where the holes were already pre-sized. Sure, it's just a hole, but like the crown at the end of a gun barrel, the hole being precisely sized, being round and not oval and precisely in the center, along with a lead or exit chamfer, all those things have a lot to do with the way the burner performs.
Steve Hoch
TVWBB Platinum Member
I've seen that mentioned before, probably by you. Can you tell any difference between them just looking at them?
Joe Anshien
TVWBB Platinum Member
Very nice write up and testing! This is a great thread.
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
I'll take pics tomorrow side by side. They look identical to me but it is dark outside.
Steve Hoch
TVWBB Platinum Member
Agreed Joe, this is the kind of stuff that always holds my interest.
Steve Hoch
TVWBB Platinum Member
This is why when I see anybody mention anything about drilling out orifices to a certain size I cringe. There is just no way you can accurately and cleanly drill one of those out at home and expect good results.
Ed P
TVWBB Platinum Member
For the intrepid, or merely curious, here is the research paper I mentioned earlier. A sample page dealing with orifices:
And if you think you might enjoy reading the Gas Engineer's Handbook, it's available, in Used condition, on Amazon for the low price of $799.50 + shipping.
And if you think you might enjoy reading the Gas Engineer's Handbook, it's available, in Used condition, on Amazon for the low price of $799.50 + shipping.
Gas Engineers Handbook: Segeler, C George: 9780831130114: Amazon.com: Books
Gas Engineers Handbook [Segeler, C George] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Gas Engineers Handbook
www.amazon.com
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Steve Hoch
TVWBB Platinum Member
I probably would enjoy that book, but not for $800. What's that about?
Ralph
TVWBB Fan
I suspect that these are date codes. Seems to match up with your 2016 dates, even if the top one is "15'.
Great write up. A lot of work, but your info answers questions that many have posed in the past.
LMichaels
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
I did a full blown write up on all this a long time ago. Chris incorporated much of it into the read only thread he created. Bottom line. If you have an LP grill and try to convert to NG with only orifices you MIGHT not WILL have an unsafe situation. Low and medium but low in particular will not flow well enough to keep a burner lit steady. Which could cause a flame out. Now, one might say "Who cares?" but that is foolish. Because you still have gas flowing. Just not sufficiently to keep that burner lit. But, perhaps another burner IS lit. Now raw gas is building up in presence of a flame. It will build up enough to get "lit" but not the way you'd like or expect.
Conversely convert a NG to LP and you will get little to no difference LO to MED and excessively high temps making the grill hard to control. Unsafe? No, not at all. Inconvenient is all. But the opposite is definitely unsafe.
Conversely convert a NG to LP and you will get little to no difference LO to MED and excessively high temps making the grill hard to control. Unsafe? No, not at all. Inconvenient is all. But the opposite is definitely unsafe.
Joe Anshien
TVWBB Platinum Member
Larry - That is a great summery. I find the vast majority of people want to convert from NG to Propane as NG grills are hard to sell and are easier to get cheap. According to the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association 9% of grills are NG (2020). Very good article about the state of the BBQ industry here. https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...ins the most popular,have a wood pellet grill.
Joe Anshien
TVWBB Platinum Member
In fact this I found this to be so interesting I thought I would post it here. If not ok please delete. A few years dated.
Alexandria, VA, April 29, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Peak grilling season is here, and with consumers home now more than ever, a new survey suggests that our increased home cooking will soon expand to the backyard at near record levels.
According to the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association’s (HPBA) biennial consumer survey, backyard cooks are not only finding new occasions to grill, but new months of the year to fire up their barbecues.
“In both the U.S. and Canada, interest in grilling continues unabated, and our reasons and seasons for grilling continue to grow,” said Jack Goldman, president and CEO, HPBA. “We conducted this survey prior to the pandemic, and we are confident these numbers will hold as people are cooking at home at the highest level in a long time.”
“We were especially pleased to see a full 37% of grill owners surveyed were looking to purchase a new grill in the near future, and we hope that number holds once stores reopen and consumers have more access to retailers.”
Among the study’s additional findings:
• Almost two-thirds (64%) of U.S. adults own a grill or smoker. More than seven in 10 (72%) Canadian adults own a grill or smoker.
• 68% of American grill owners plan to cook out on the Fourth of July. The next most popular grilling days are:
o Memorial Day (56%).
o Labor Day (56%).
o Father’s Day (42%).
o Mother’s Day (29%).
• Year-round grilling remains highly popular:
o 75% of owners grill in the winter.
o 23% grill on Super Bowl Sunday; 13% on Thanksgiving; and 9% on New Year’s Day.
• In addition to holidays, owners over the past year cooked out for a birthday party (45%), during a camping trip (19%), while on vacation (17%) and tailgating at a sporting event (10%).
• Gas remains the most popular fuel, with 61% of grill owners using propane, followed by charcoal (49%), which has increased slightly since 2017 (45%).
o 10% of owners have an electric grill.
o 9% have natural gas grill. o 3% have a wood pellet grill.
• Why do people grill? 68% of owners do it for the flavor, followed by lifestyle (45%), convenience (33%), entertainment (32%) and hobby (19%).
• Grill purchasing continues to buck the e-commerce trend, with 83% of grills purchased in-store but only 15% online.
• One in 10 grillers have a full outdoor kitchen, and 56% of these individuals use that kitchen at least once a week.
“Since the barbecue industry started doing these types of surveys, ownership has stayed steady between 60 and 70%,” Goldman observed. “This is a mature market that encourages manufacturers to get creative with their offerings. Consumers are the winners with interesting products that fit into any lifestyle.”
The HPBA State of the Barbecue Industry Report was conducted online via Rockbridge Associates Inc. in August 2019. Rockbridge conducted a 14-minute online survey from a panel of grillers who were at least 18 and were either the primary griller or shared grilling responsibilities. The margin of sampling error for aggregate results is +/- 3%, and the consumer sample was representative of the U.S. and Canadian populations respectively.
About the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association (HPBA) The Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association (HPBA), based in Arlington, Va., is the North American industry association for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, representatives, service firms and allied associates for all types of barbecue, patio and hearth appliances, fuels and accessories. The association provides professional member services and industry support in education, statistics, government relations, marketing, advertising and consumer education.
2020 State of the Barbecue Industry
Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association Survey Finds the Reasons and Seasons for Grilling are Expanding
Alexandria, VA, April 29, 2020 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Peak grilling season is here, and with consumers home now more than ever, a new survey suggests that our increased home cooking will soon expand to the backyard at near record levels.
According to the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association’s (HPBA) biennial consumer survey, backyard cooks are not only finding new occasions to grill, but new months of the year to fire up their barbecues.
“In both the U.S. and Canada, interest in grilling continues unabated, and our reasons and seasons for grilling continue to grow,” said Jack Goldman, president and CEO, HPBA. “We conducted this survey prior to the pandemic, and we are confident these numbers will hold as people are cooking at home at the highest level in a long time.”
“We were especially pleased to see a full 37% of grill owners surveyed were looking to purchase a new grill in the near future, and we hope that number holds once stores reopen and consumers have more access to retailers.”
Among the study’s additional findings:
• Almost two-thirds (64%) of U.S. adults own a grill or smoker. More than seven in 10 (72%) Canadian adults own a grill or smoker.
• 68% of American grill owners plan to cook out on the Fourth of July. The next most popular grilling days are:
o Memorial Day (56%).
o Labor Day (56%).
o Father’s Day (42%).
o Mother’s Day (29%).
• Year-round grilling remains highly popular:
o 75% of owners grill in the winter.
o 23% grill on Super Bowl Sunday; 13% on Thanksgiving; and 9% on New Year’s Day.
• In addition to holidays, owners over the past year cooked out for a birthday party (45%), during a camping trip (19%), while on vacation (17%) and tailgating at a sporting event (10%).
• Gas remains the most popular fuel, with 61% of grill owners using propane, followed by charcoal (49%), which has increased slightly since 2017 (45%).
o 10% of owners have an electric grill.
o 9% have natural gas grill. o 3% have a wood pellet grill.
• Why do people grill? 68% of owners do it for the flavor, followed by lifestyle (45%), convenience (33%), entertainment (32%) and hobby (19%).
• Grill purchasing continues to buck the e-commerce trend, with 83% of grills purchased in-store but only 15% online.
• One in 10 grillers have a full outdoor kitchen, and 56% of these individuals use that kitchen at least once a week.
“Since the barbecue industry started doing these types of surveys, ownership has stayed steady between 60 and 70%,” Goldman observed. “This is a mature market that encourages manufacturers to get creative with their offerings. Consumers are the winners with interesting products that fit into any lifestyle.”
The HPBA State of the Barbecue Industry Report was conducted online via Rockbridge Associates Inc. in August 2019. Rockbridge conducted a 14-minute online survey from a panel of grillers who were at least 18 and were either the primary griller or shared grilling responsibilities. The margin of sampling error for aggregate results is +/- 3%, and the consumer sample was representative of the U.S. and Canadian populations respectively.
About the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association (HPBA) The Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association (HPBA), based in Arlington, Va., is the North American industry association for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, representatives, service firms and allied associates for all types of barbecue, patio and hearth appliances, fuels and accessories. The association provides professional member services and industry support in education, statistics, government relations, marketing, advertising and consumer education.
DanHoo
TVWBB Olympian
61% + 9% for propane and natural gas.
Or in other words, 70% have a gas grill and 13 percent of gas grills are natural gas.
makes sense on the flip market that propane grill seem to sell faster and for higher money than natural gas.
The outdoor kitchen statistic seems quite high to me.