Debate: 13 Bar Genesis vs Summit 400 Series


 
John-NY

John-NY

TVWBB Pro
I’m curious to see everyone’s input on this.

I want this debate to be about cooking performance ONLY.
Nothing about cost, frame corrosion, cookbox issues, materials quality, looks, aesthetic, etc.
Cooking Performance Only.

Basically any X000 13 Bar Deep Box Genesis vs. The Summit 470 (or similar Summit) model.

I’d like to hear if anyone has input regarding:
- Cooked on both of these models and can give an objective opinion comparing them
- Side burner comparisons
- Summit Sear Burner performance compared to X000 not having one (does it even need one?)
- Rotisserie IR on Summit compared to Non IR Rotisserie on X000 (do you need to remove grates? Is it a pain?)
- Speed of cooking comparatively between the models
- Any other cooking related commentary pertaining to either family of models

I fully intend to invoke heated discourse on either side here so let it all out.

And for questions not related to a side burner, any X000 13 bar Genesis applies.

IMG_7029.jpeg
 
As long as you're comparing to one with a rotisserie burner then IMO equally great. I had a Summit 1st generation (now the one Jon has) and while for straight up grilling it worked just great it was nowhere near as versatile as my Genesis 3 which I ended up keeping because of that
 
As far as newer grills if you are looking at Summit I would recommend cross shopping it against Genesis ii LX. I had them at the same time and preferred the LX. I still have a 2 burner and 3 burner version of the LX. They also make 4 and 6 burner LX. They incorporate the sear station into every burner and that grill performs very well in my opinion. I plan on doing a comparison between my two Genesis LX grills against my Genesis 1000 and 2000.

Weber Genesis II LX S-440 4-Burner Stainless Steel 52,000-BTU LP Gas Grill with 12,000-BTU Side -Burner | Do it Best

"Durable LP (liquified petroleum) gas grill. Features the GS4 grilling system which consists of: Infinity Ignition, high performance burners, stainless ste
www.doitbest.com www.doitbest.com
 
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I agree with Larry, although I have yet to turn to the spinning side and try rotisserie grilling.

However, for straight up grilling, my 1st generation Summit 450 that Larry kindly sold me packs 4 burners and up to 50,000 btus in the same grilling space as a Genesis has 3 burners and 36,000 btus.

This is not at all to say that the Genesis is not a great cooker. It is!

One nice thing is that the 1st generation Summit can use the Weber Crafted Kitchen accessories sized for the Spirit 300 and Smokefire:

IMG_3515.jpeg
 
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John-NY said:
I’m curious to see everyone’s input on this.

I want this debate to be about cooking performance ONLY.
Nothing about cost, frame corrosion, cookbox issues, materials quality, looks, aesthetic, etc.
Cooking Performance Only.

Basically any X000 13 Bar Deep Box Genesis vs. The Summit 470 (or similar Summit) model.

I’d like to hear if anyone has input regarding:
- Cooked on both of these models and can give an objective opinion comparing them
- Side burner comparisons
- Summit Sear Burner performance compared to X000 not having one (does it even need one?)
- Rotisserie IR on Summit compared to Non IR Rotisserie on X000 (do you need to remove grates? Is it a pain?)
- Speed of cooking comparatively between the models
- Any other cooking related commentary pertaining to either family of models

I fully intend to invoke heated discourse on either side here so let it all out.

And for questions not related to a side burner, any X000 13 bar Genesis applies.

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I doubt you will get many people who cooked on both and did a comparison. The S470 is not that common of a grill. The Genesis of that era are the same size as an S470.
 
I never used a S470. Never needed to because the cooking performance with my 36-37 year old Genesis grills are exactly the same as when they were new, and they cook superbly. I wonder what the cooking performance on a S470 will be like when those things are that old. I doubt their cooking performance will be the same as when they were new.

Cheers!
Gerry
 
I've never used a summit gasser, though I've read the side burner on a Summit is nearly identical as one on the E330 and I have one of those.

All of my comments are related to the side burner, nothing more. I have also used the side burner on a Genesis 3 so I can compare that

E330 side burner pro's
- 12K BTU, barely enough to get cast iron hot enough for a sear
- decent wind break being close to the cookbox
E330 side burner con's
- "low" isn't low and will not simmer a small pot as it is too hot.

Genesis 3 side burner pro's
- 10K BTU, not enough heat
- lower temp "low" and a simmer is possible
Genesis 3 side burner cons
- a breeze or wind takes a lot of the heat away from the pan.

IMO, both burners are "fair". not Good, Great or Excellent.

My indoor cooktop has a 12K BTU burner that will throttle down lower than either the E330 burner or the one on the Genesis 3. I'd say that burner is Fair+ to Good

My indoor cooktop also has a dual-flame 19K BTU that will go way low for a true simmer and 19K BTU is enough to get a wok hot. I'd give that burner a Great.
 
I had a side burner on my grill. I never used it because the prevailing breeze at my house leaves it pretty exposed. I replaced it with a side table.
The OP asked about "- Speed of cooking comparatively between the models".
I can cook at any speed on my grills. However, with the more BTU's on the newer grills, maybe he's asking about recovery times after opening the lid and removing and adding to the grill?

Gerry
 
G Schafer said:
I had a side burner on my grill. I never used it because the prevailing breeze at my house leaves it pretty exposed. I replaced it with a side table.
The OP asked about "- Speed of cooking comparatively between the models".
I can cook at any speed on my grills. However, with the more BTU's on the newer grills, maybe he's asking about recovery times after opening the lid and removing and adding to the grill?

Gerry
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Yes, exactly
 
I am king of curious on why you want to know? I have cooked and restored both grills and I think there have been many of discussions on the strengths and weakness of both.
 
Joe Anshien said:
I am king of curious on why you want to know? I have cooked and restored both grills and I think there have been many of discussions on the strengths and weakness of both.
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I just wanted to spark discussion in a focused thread. I do always hear that “<insert grill here> is amazing” but it’s always most often surrounding 13 Bars, Silver/Gold B’s or Summits.
I actually never do hear the cons of any of these grills pertaining to actually cooking, so thought these discussions could highlight the nuances that comparisons bring out.
 
I don't think there are any "cons" to the old 13 bar grills. Honestly they do everything well and competently. Without extra add on devices or hardware. Want to cook hot and fast? They do it quite well. (Can others more focused do better?) Sure. Want L&S? Here again, they do that job very well and competently. Yes another grill more focused on that function i.e. a pellet grill does FAR better but, you CAN get away with quite passable L&S. Watch rotisserie? Nothing does it better IMO. Not even units with an IR burner do it "better". Just as well? Sure. Better? Not in this experienced user's opinion. (owned both types side by side) in addition to having the old Summit on the deck. So from an experience standpoint? At one time on my deck I had the following hardware. Genesis 3000, Summit 450 (1st gen), and the Wolf. So it's not like I am speaking "off the cuff" I've actually lived with all of them extensively.
 
John-NY said:
I just wanted to spark discussion in a focused thread. I do always hear that “<insert grill here> is amazing” but it’s always most often surrounding 13 Bars, Silver/Gold B’s or Summits.
I actually never do hear the cons of any of these grills pertaining to actually cooking, so thought these discussions could highlight the nuances that comparisons bring out.
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Ok but it will be as expected.
13 bar - heats up slower, uses more gas, has nice even heating, less flare ups, and feels more like cooking in an oven, as grates further from fire.
470 - Hotter, heats up quicker, better zoning N/S, Higher more convenient rotisserie with nice IR burner.
Side burners - same - never use much.

If you totally wanted to disregard build quality - I would take the Summit hands down for cooking. Much more versatile, higher so easier on your back, larger cook area, and great rotisserie.

That is why I got a Napoleon Prestige 500 RSIB. I wanted a Summit but with a cast aluminum firebox and the IR side burner.
 
LMichaels said:
I don't think there are any "cons" to the old 13 bar grills. Honestly they do everything well and competently. Without extra add on devices or hardware. Want to cook hot and fast? They do it quite well. (Can others more focused do better?) Sure. Want L&S? Here again, they do that job very well and competently. Yes another grill more focused on that function i.e. a pellet grill does FAR better but, you CAN get away with quite passable L&S. Watch rotisserie? Nothing does it better IMO. Not even units with an IR burner do it "better". Just as well? Sure. Better? Not in this experienced user's opinion. (owned both types side by side) in addition to having the old Summit on the deck. So from an experience standpoint? At one time on my deck I had the following hardware. Genesis 3000, Summit 450 (1st gen), and the Wolf. So it's not like I am speaking "off the cuff" I've actually lived with all of them extensively.
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Larry. I would agree that the 470 with IR burner can do the same rotisserie results (maybe better IMHO as the IR can give you more control on skin crispiness), but actually wins because you do not have to remove the grates and that is a huge plus for convenience and the flexibility for cooking veggies at the same time;-)
 
Joe Anshien said:
Larry. I would agree that the 470 with IR burner can do the same rotisserie results (maybe better IMHO as the IR can give you more control on skin crispiness), but actually wins because you do not have to remove the grates and that is a huge plus for convenience and the flexibility for cooking veggies at the same time;-)
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But here too, I don't much care about removing grates. And actually what I had done for my old Genesis was I simply made "shorty" grates. That way I could put a decent sized roast on AND potatoes or nearly anything else I wanted to cook. Been living with an IR burner a while now. And I "like" it but don't find it a be all end all solution. But I'd sure rather have it than not
 
I've owned a lot of different Weber grills including Summit s670 and s420. Personally I didn't find anything special about these newer Summit grills. I was happy to refurbish them and flip them ASAP. The Genesis 2000 and 1000 that I have refurbished I will have a very hard time selling And the newer Genesis LX grills that I have will be harder to part with than those summits for sure. I understand that these are just my opinions and that of course everybody will have a different Outlook/perspective and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
I just got my first Genesis 1000, but have a pretty full deck at the moment. While I haven't had a chance to try the 1000 yet, I have these that I cook with regularly
Screenshot_20240730-132930.png
Honestly, I love all of them. I've given the silver a to my sister in law after using it for a decade then restoring it. All the rest of them are in regular use, other that the Genesis Gold, that hasn't been used this summer yet. As far as the summit, I really like the 6 burner. I can cook a Thanksgiving turkey on it, and have 3 times or so. The longevity isn't there, but the ignition system works great, heats up real fast, the thick stainless rods are awesome, and I find it really cooks well. I like the added height of how it is taller than the Genesis. I like the 4 burner, but really miss the smoker box and IR burner. I still love the Genesis. I find myself just admiring it at times because it looks so nice 😂 I'll be really interested to try the deep box 1000 though, that thing has me excited to try it out!
 
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