Couple of high heat packer questions...


 
Don Cash

Don Cash

TVWBB Gold Member
I've done a couple of flats before but never a whole packer. Picked up a cryo-packed 13-lber from Walmart today to high heat for Opening Day tomorrow. The difference between the point and flat on this one is not really evident. Will it become more apparent after smoking?


Here's my plan:

- On (right out of the fridge) immediately after assembling a minion start and then smoked @ 325-375 until the flat reaches 170* (~2 hrs).

- In an aluminum pan and covered with foil and then back on the 325-375 WSM until tender.

- Start checking for tender 1:50 after foiling.

- Pull when flat is tender and separate point from flat.

- Flat wrapped in foil and resting in a cooler. Whole point back on at 325-375 for 2 hours.

- Pull point and cut into 1" cubes, sauce, put into the aluminum pan and back on the 325-375 WSM for 1 hour.

- Slice flat and eat everything...


Sound about right?
 
Don,
My experience is that the point becomes less evident after smoking. My plan for my next packer (which I plan to do pretty soon) is to partially seperate the point from the flat before it goes on the WSM.

Your plan sounds solid, but here is a College Education on High Heat Brisket!

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...82535#8640082535

http://tvwbb.com/eve/forums/a/...94406#4481094406

Please be sure to let us know how the Burnt Ends come out. I gotta make BE's for 25 people in May!!!
 
Thanks, Charles! I thought I had read just about every thread regarding HH briskets over the last few day in preparation for tomorrow...Must have missed those two. Lots of good info there. Thanks again!
 
If it's not terribly evident you may have a poorly cut brisket. I have had a few that were slightly mangled.
Have a look on both sides to see if any fat vein looks thicker.

On my high heats I tend to trim a lot of the vein and leave a couple long toothpicks to show the way after it's been cooked.
 
Don, I might check the meat before 1 1/2 hours . It cooks pretty fast when wrapped. I usually check from 45 minutes to and hour at first then every half hour after that. Good luck with those burn't ends.Never made them . Will probably try it one day
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don, I might check the meat before 1 1/2 hours . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Especially if you're going to 170 before foiling. I don't temp (preferring to smoke ~2.5 hours then foil) but if you choose to I'd suggest 165. Still I'd check for done sooner. (I check about 75-85 min after foiling.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don, I might check the meat before 1 1/2 hours . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Especially if you're going to 170 before foiling. I don't temp (preferring to smoke ~2.5 hours then foil) but if you choose to I'd suggest 165. Still I'd check for done sooner. (I check about 75-85 min after foiling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks, guys!

Kevin, I was going by your "start checking at the 3:50 mark" comment from another thread but missed the "2-1/2 hour unfoiled" part. I thought I read somewhere that it should take about ~2 hours (not ~2.5) before the foil...so that would mean to start checking 1:50 after the foil. The numbers now add up. I'll take it to 165, foil and then start checking 75 minutes later.

Thanks again!
 
I may be too late to the game ... but about those burnt ends ... at 325-375* I wouldn't cook the point for an extra two hours. One would probably be better. Then cut into cubes, sauce (thinner sauces work better), and cook for another 30-40 mins. The timing your using now is for a 250ish cooker temp. That's not to say your way won't work. I just think they may be a bit more "burnt" than you're looking for
icon_smile.gif
 
One thing you might consider is foiling at 165 or ~2.5 hours in, whichever comes first. Ime this makes for a more predictable cook. As noted, I don't temp, but I have stuck a therm in from time to time and have seen readings from the low 150s to the low 160s at the foiling point.

Imo, it doesn't really matter - its not like there's some magic internal number. As long as the meat is foiled pre- or during plateau rather than substantially post-, you're good. And that's why I don't temp. It removes something else to do, some concern to have. I'll foil a bit sooner if the come-up was faster, a bit later if slower - maybe - but mostly I foil at 2.5, give or take 15 min, whenever it's convenient and don't worry about it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's not to say your way won't work. I just think they may be a bit more "burnt" than you're looking for </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed. Choke the smoker after removing the brisket so that when the point goes back in, especially after sauce is added, you're not looking at potential problems.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rick Kramer:
I may be too late to the game ... but about those burnt ends ... at 325-375* I wouldn't cook the point for an extra two hours. One would probably be better. Then cut into cubes, sauce (thinner sauces work better), and cook for another 30-40 mins. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks! That actually fits in with the schedule better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
One thing you might consider is foiling at 165 or ~2.5 hours in, whichever comes first...Agreed. Choke the smoker after removing the brisket... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Will do. I got it on at 11:20. Smoker is at 351 right now (12:10) and the meat is up to 88.

IMG_5111.jpg


I'm going to leave it high heat. A shorter cook on the ends fits the schedule better.

Thanks again guys.
 
Kevin et al. I have done many HH packers but have always let the cooker temp rise before I put the meat on. Always cooked about 2.5 hrs before foil. I am going to try putting the meat on cold while the temp comes up to increase the smoke flavor and ring appearance. Do I still stay with the 2.5 hrs. I assume so based on what is written here, I guess the only dif will be the meat temp being a bit lower just before foiling.

Mark
 
I do. I Minion with ~25 lit. The meat goes on when the lit is poured and the smoker assembled. (Depending on your ambient conditions, elevation, etc., adjust lit accordingly. I Minion virtually everything I do and always load in right away.)

2.5 hours works for me. Again, give or take a bit but mostly out of convenience. If the temp rise seems to be slowing as it goes through the mid- or upper-200s (as is often the case for me) I crack the door to keep the rise going. That's it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mk evenson:
Kevin et al. I have done many HH packers but have always let the cooker temp rise before I put the meat on. Always cooked about 2.5 hrs before foil. I am going to try putting the meat on cold while the temp comes up to increase the smoke flavor and ring appearance. Do I still stay with the 2.5 hrs. I assume so based on what is written here, I guess the only dif will be the meat temp being a bit lower just before foiling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mark, This is my first packer with ANY method so...

Kevin has said in many threads that he always puts the meat on right after assembly while the smoker is coming up to temps. That's what I did here. He also said that he never temps and foils at the ~2.5 hour mark. He recommended that, since I am temping, I should foil at 165* OR 2.5 hours, whichever came first. Well, it didn't really matter. At 2.5 hours in, the brisket was 163*...close enough for me. I probably won't temp in the future. Sometimes you gotta see it for yourself, right?

Here it is before foil.

IMG_5114.jpg
 
Some use foil pans. I prefer foil.

This brisket smoked

Single sheet HD foil for bottom/sides, another for top.

then foiled



'lid' removed at finish so I could drain some of the juices

 
Don -- great timing on this post. I'm doing my first brisket (a flat) tomorrow and plan to do it high heat. What rub did you use?

Kevin -- thanks for your recent posts as well as your earlier ones! You've created a veritable HH brisket textbook on here, which goes a long way to increasing my comfort level on First HH Brisket Eve.
 
Mark, I do it the way you are suggesting. ALways let my temps get up to about 250 or so before I put the cold meat on. Putting the meat on really cold seems to give it a better ring. I've put briskets on that were not really that cold and found that the ring seems to look washed out. Let's just say it's not very pronounced :-(
 
Everything turned out great! I started checking for tender 75 minutes after foiling and it wasn't near ready...1/2 hour later and it was closer but not quite there...1/2 hour later it was done.

Our guests started showing up, I started sucking down cold ones and didn't get any finished pics. Everyone loved the burnt ends and thought the flat was great.

Thanks for the help, guys!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jon Des.:
Don -- great timing on this post. I'm doing my first brisket (a flat) tomorrow and plan to do it high heat. What rub did you use? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Jim's All-Night Brisket Rub

Good luck!
 
Glad you liked it Don, I haven't done a low n slow brisket in a long time. I believe the latter half of the cook in foil does the brisket good, the whole thing is done tender at the same time vs. low n slow can be under and over at the same time. I mix it up sometimes by doing a slooooow ramp up and then cook at 250-275 till bark is where I like it then I will foil and light the afterburner to finish.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I started checking for tender 75 minutes after foiling and it wasn't near ready </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It gives you a reference point.

I'm not one to spend time hanging about the cooker nor to monitor cooktemps every few minutes. Differences in the thickness of briskets, differences in rise of the cooktemps, differences in cooktemps once the rise is complete, differences in ambient conditions from cook to cook - all can affect cooking. Foiling evens out many disparities. Checking for tender 75-85 after foiling gives you a reference feel-wise. From cook to cook you'll notice differences in feel. You'll also, over a little time, discover that once you get the reference point feel, you'll be able to tell based on that feel just how much more time it will need.

Bravo. I'm glad it worked well for you.
 
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