Changes made to Weber grills


 
@John Burns - Thank you for the time you put into writing such a thorough and insightful reply. I really enjoyed reading about the history of the Weber company and the line of thought that went into many of your great gas grills. Part of my attraction to the early Silver A/B/C lines as well as the early Genesis x000 series is the aesthetics of these beautiful models. Yes, I enjoy the cooking performance - but I really love how they look! I would be very interested from a historical standpoint to hear about how the early design/engineering teams came up with the these striking grill styles from twenty and thirty years ago.
 
If you haven't seen this already, Val, I think you will really enjoy the story of how the Weber Genesis came to be:

Jon beat me to the punch with the article link. @Val Deale - This is probably the most comprehensive write up I've seen about the development of the original line of Genesis models. I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the Genesis Silver B design, and that whole aesthetic that lasted from 1985 to around 2006.
 
I wonder if in the future, especially if the controls become digital (many here would hate that in itself), that you could have east- west burners without taking up so much space on the side tables.
Absolutely! I think the Ninja Flex Flame is proof of that concept:

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@John Burns I always LOVE when you chime in with information! Very thoughtful and thorough responses like this are awesome! On a side note, thinking about changes over the years, what was the thinking behind making the summit so different? I have an s420 and 670, and the cookbox design materials and layout have always made me wonder what the intended effect was. And while I'm sad that they don't last as well as the cast aluminum, they cook absolutely great! As good if not better than any of the others. And I've got a few 😜 Screenshot_20250925-151407.png
 
@John Burns I always LOVE when you chime in with information! Very thoughtful and thorough responses like this are awesome! On a side note, thinking about changes over the years, what was the thinking behind making the summit so different? I have an s420 and 670, and the cookbox design materials and layout have always made me wonder what the intended effect was. And while I'm sad that they don't last as well as the cast aluminum, they cook absolutely great! As good if not better than any of the others. And I've got a few 😜
Hi Eric! I always enjoy sharing info when I can to help dispell any myths or rumors, and just to give everyone a sense of what actually goes on behind the scenes here at Weber. As for the Summit design, it's really hard to say why that particular design was chosen at this point, as pretty much everyone from the R&D team responsible for that model has either retired or moved onto other job opportunities. I can only speculate, but perhaps there was a hurdle regarding tooling required to make a cast aluminum cookbox in the size required. Tooling can be very expensive, and it might have simply been out of scope for the project at the time it was kicking off. Once again, I'm only speculating , but am speaking from personal experience when it comes to product development. The porcelain components of the cookbox definitely were a weak point, as I replaced many an entire cookbox assembly to address corrosion issues when working in Consumer Care. Let me know if you've got more questions!
 
Hi Eric! I always enjoy sharing info when I can to help dispell any myths or rumors, and just to give everyone a sense of what actually goes on behind the scenes here at Weber. As for the Summit design, it's really hard to say why that particular design was chosen at this point, as pretty much everyone from the R&D team responsible for that model has either retired or moved onto other job opportunities. I can only speculate, but perhaps there was a hurdle regarding tooling required to make a cast aluminum cookbox in the size required. Tooling can be very expensive, and it might have simply been out of scope for the project at the time it was kicking off. Once again, I'm only speculating , but am speaking from personal experience when it comes to product development. The porcelain components of the cookbox definitely were a weak point, as I replaced many an entire cookbox assembly to address corrosion issues when working in Consumer Care. Let me know if you've got more questions!
John,

Once again, your behind-the-scenes insight is so informative! We are very blessed to have your participation on our board. I guess I will just say that I applaud the moves Weber made with the newest Summit gas grill, including the cast aluminum firebox. I guess now we just need to put in a good word to bring back a "Platinum" option with real stainless for the cabinetry. Sure, it will cost more, but some buyers would be willing to pay that to have a really first-class grill that will last.
 
I'd rather venture into Mordor than take another Vieluxe related Consumer Care call!
I can sure see that, John! But I am having fun slowly, but surely, restoring what I believe to be a very first year Vieluxe where the logo and lettering were actually ENGRAVED in the stainless-steel control panel. I know enough to not even dream that your customer service could assist me, but with the help of some of my fellow grill fanatics here, I am getting closer to the day when my Vieluxe will recapture some of its original glory and most of all live to GRILL again!

Cropped control panel BEFORE.JPEG

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I can sure see that, John! But I am having fun slowly, but surely, restoring what I believe to be a very first year Vieluxe where the logo and lettering were actually ENGRAVED in the stainless-steel control panel. I know enough to not even dream that your customer service could assist me, but with the help of some of my fellow grill fanatics here, I am getting closer to the day when my Vieluxe will recapture some of its original glory and most of all live to GRILL again!

View attachment 120066

View attachment 120065
It's looking absolutely beautiful Jon! Don't get me wrong, it's a truly amazing grill. It was just a hard model to troubleshoot and provide replacement parts for.
 
Hi Eric! I always enjoy sharing info when I can to help dispell any myths or rumors, and just to give everyone a sense of what actually goes on behind the scenes here at Weber. As for the Summit design, it's really hard to say why that particular design was chosen at this point, as pretty much everyone from the R&D team responsible for that model has either retired or moved onto other job opportunities. I can only speculate, but perhaps there was a hurdle regarding tooling required to make a cast aluminum cookbox in the size required. Tooling can be very expensive, and it might have simply been out of scope for the project at the time it was kicking off. Once again, I'm only speculating , but am speaking from personal experience when it comes to product development. The porcelain components of the cookbox definitely were a weak point, as I replaced many an entire cookbox assembly to address corrosion issues when working in Consumer Care. Let me know if you've got more questions!
Thanks for answering! I've felt that the design seems to heat differently, and therefore cook differently. I know the 420 gets to about the same temp as my gold c, but man when I open the hood it FEELS hotter. The airflow and convection just seems different. And I've used a digital probe to see that they were both heating approximately the same. I'm assuming the shape has something to do with it, or perhaps the porcelain reflects the heat differently? Just me speculating, but it is an interesting thought experiment 😆 The 650 raises the temp of the zip code when I've got it going full tilt and open the lid! 😂 PXL_20231001_171121324.jpg
 
Those grills have a whole lot more internal air heated up than a Gold C. When you open that hood it is therefore releasing much more heated air. It is like comparing the heat released when opening a Q1000 grill to that of your gold C. I am sure the Gold would seem quite a bit hotter than the Q1000.
 
Forgive me if this issue/concern has been previously discussed and, perhaps, beaten to death, it has been a while since I was last here.

My concern is the changes made to the Genesis and, quite frankly, ALL Weber gas grills. Additionally, I am disturbed by changes to the corporate structure of the company. The company WAS privately held, then taken public, issuing stock and traded on one of the exchanges. It has since been taken private again, by a private equity company, as I understand it. If I am mistaken about this most recent move, forgive me and feel free to set me straight.

All these changes have resulted in some, what I believe to be, drastic changes to the product and the operation of this company.

At one time, we could get real, true, useful assistance from the customer service staff who operated the phones. Now, staff are, at least seemingly, somewhere in Asia and have little-to-no real-life understanding of the changes made to the grills, nor how they operate, beyond a basic click the igniter; heat the grill; put what’s to be grilled on the grates; and cook it to desired “doneness”.

Disappointed with this, I called the corporate offices in Illinois and left a message on some line. I was surprised and grateful to receive a callback the next day. That was the only thing that was “ pleasing” about that experience.

I made clear what I was hoping to achieve with my conversation and achieved absolutely nothing that I had hope for.

I made it clear that I had questions about why the orientation of the burners was changed from their former direction of side-to-side to their current front-to-back orientation. I wanted to know how the decision was arrived at, what the supposed advantages and benefits were. What drove this decision?It seems to me that this was a pretty major change and one that would not have been made without some thoughtful reasoning and, possibly, some discussion among, MAYBE, an engineer, or two.

My correspondent had no clue. He only knew that the burners, yes, ARE oriented in this direction. WHY? NO CLUE. I offered up my opinion on why this could be problematic when trying to rotisserie, say, a chicken. The burners, in the former orientation, were perfect for indirect heating, with the front and rear burners applying the heat, were directing their heat to the bulkiest part of the bird - its breasts, making for a damn good finished product, imho (and that, the opinion that is, of those whom I served the bird). I, stupidly continued this line of inquiry - again, why this was done? Still absolutely NO IDEA.

OKAY. On to, maybe something he might know (fingers crossed). Now this change may have been done years before this kid had begun working for the company. For a little background, my current Silver Genesis was made in 2001 and purchased in May of 2002. It is a natural gas model that still works like a champ. Over the years, I have casually looked at the models at HD and Lowes, without really looking too deeply at them, because mine works so weil. My only cause for considering a change is that, while the cookbox and burners are in EXCELLENT condition, the frame of its support structure is rusting out, in spite my good for it. I have looked for a new structure with no luck. I am willing to do a rebuild in order to preserve the grill, but it’s been difficult to find the frame.

I asked about the change from cast aluminum cookboxes to the current stainless steel. Again, crickets. This guy seemed to not even know that the cookbox was, virtually forever, constructed in that manner and that a change HAD occurred.

There are many other things, things that I believe we are all aware of, things that stem from smaller decisions to “cheapen” the product, from their being made overseas, to the simple inferior quality components now being used. Guess it’s simply a sign of the times and an old fart like me who remembers the “good old days” is aging out of the market. Those consumers now coming in to that market have no idea of what “ was” and now simply accepts what “is” because there’s nothing to which they can compare it

I am at the point at which I’m about to give in and give up and go to another manufacturer. It seems that the others also orient their burners in the same manner, and I am totally reluctant to move from the brand I have trusted for over 40 years, owning concurrently, both gas models and charcoal kettles and replacing various parts when they have outlived their usefulness.

The ONLY things I have had to replace on either models (save for two of the four kettles I have owned that just plum wore out; one of the kettle grills, my first, was replaced when I “graduated” from the 18” to the 22.5” model. I gifted the smaller one to my brother, who continued using it for about another 12 years.) were “flavorizer” bars and the grates). I received my first gas-burning Weber Genesis in 1987 as a gift from my father-in-law and replaced it in 2002.

I have “coached” others on THEIR purchase decisions over the years, always singing the praise of Webers, but I am quite sadly “done”, I am disappointed to say.

I simply cannot buy from someone who has abandoned its principles AND its loyal followers.

Anyone out there’s disappointed as I?

(Sorry for the length of this, but I figure we’re all pretty passionate about these grills, otherwise, we wouldn’t be here.)
Thanks very much for your comments. I get the fact that I have created some high expectations. I have allowed myself to be spoiled by the performances of my previous Weber products.

Forgive for taking issue with one of your comments. While you are correct that I should not expect a frontline employee to be privy to the reasons behind changes made to the product, but I was assured that the person to whom I eventually spoke would be able to answer most any question about the products.

In the phone call that followed several to people whom I was told were customer service employees, calls in which I received no help with people who seemingly had just been hired( based upon THEIR product knowledge ), I left a message that was clear in my request that I needed to speak with a product representative with the knowledge to answer in-depth questions.

When this most recent representative reached out to me I quickly found he had surprisingly little knowledge beyond bring able to describe the product.

I was a product specialist during my sales career. I first encountered Weber products in the early 80’s and made my second purchase of a Weber product after speaking with one of their marketing associates who was working a weekend hawking the Weber line at a hardware chain in Fairfax, VA over a weekend in 1985.

After speaking with this gentleman, he stated with surprise that he found my knowledge of the Weber products exceed that of many of his associates. He MAY have “gilding the lily” as way of sweet-talking me into buying the product, I don’t know. But, he was pretty knowledgeable.

I was disappointed with the most recent conversation because the guy showed his ignorance by not being able to discuss the impact on the rotisserie function by the change made to the array of burners.

Thank you again for your input. This group exists due to the fact that each of us recognizes the superiority of the products this company has made over the years AND that, as corny as it may sound, we share a sort of “devotion” to them. It is unusual in these times that people hold some sort of passion for such. It is a compliment and testimony to the company who has proudly produced such a quality product.
 
PART 3

OKAY. On to, maybe something he might know (fingers crossed). Now this change may have been done years before this kid had begun working for the company. For a little background, my current Silver Genesis was made in 2001 and purchased in May of 2002. It is a natural gas model that still works like a champ. Over the years, I have casually looked at the models at HD and Lowes, without really looking too deeply at them, because mine works so weil. My only cause for considering a change is that, while the cookbox and burners are in EXCELLENT condition, the frame of its support structure is rusting out, in spite my good for it. I have looked for a new structure with no luck. I am willing to do a rebuild in order to preserve the grill, but it’s been difficult to find the frame. - As a general practice, we try to keep replacement parts for a model available for 10 years after it's been discontinued. If another, newer model uses many of the same parts (in this case frame components) then you could expect the part to hang around a bit longer. When I started at Weber in 2010 frame components for 2000-2001 model year Genesis were starting to diminish inventory wise as we were ramping down the stock as we were hitting the 10 year mark of discontinuation of that model design. For some background, Genesis Silver's lived from 2000 to 2005, so by 2015 you could expect parts for the last model year design (2005) to start to become hard to find. We're 24 years out from when the 2001 model was discontinued, and at this point there's a few parts available, but none of them are frame components. Unfortunately, we simply can't hold inventory of every component of our thousands of models forever. The warehouse would need to be gargantuan in size, and the cost would be astronomical. Disappointing to be sure, but it's uncommon for most consumer goods to have replacement parts available for even a few years after a product is discontinued, let alone 10 years.

I asked about the change from cast aluminum cookboxes to the current stainless steel. Again, crickets. This guy seemed to not even know that the cookbox was, virtually forever, constructed in that manner and that a change HAD occurred. - We don't make stainless steel cookboxes. They are all made of cast aluminum. With the exception of the 2000-2005 Summits, which had some porcelain enamel incorporated into the design, the mention of which will make Larry twitch. ;)

There are many other things, things that I believe we are all aware of, things that stem from smaller decisions to “cheapen” the product, from their being made overseas, to the simple inferior quality components now being used. Guess it’s simply a sign of the times and an old fart like me who remembers the “good old days” is aging out of the market. Those consumers now coming in to that market have no idea of what “ was” and now simply accepts what “is” because there’s nothing to which they can compare it. - While we do try to be mindful of the material costs of each of our new products, our Quality team is more robust than ever. I say that all the time, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to convince anyone that doesn't work at Weber that it's true, but there are so many QA testing guidelines involving thousands of hours of componentry testing in laboratory-controlled environments to make sure we're getting scientifically accurate readings. Spot checking and testing of components and grills running in current production happen all day long. So it's a constant balancing act to make sure we're putting out products we can be proud of, that last for years while still being able to make a profit on them. The warranty on most of our products is years longer than most competitors, and we wouldn't cover them for so long if we were not confident in their ability to last. In fact, our current warranties are often longer than the warranties on our products from decades ago, so we believe in them more now than ever. All that said, material costs have risen (dramatically so in some cases), so our design teams always have their work cut out for them finding the most cost-effective means of creating new product that maintains the quality expected of a Weber.

I am at the point at which I’m about to give in and give up and go to another manufacturer. It seems that the others also orient their burners in the same manner, and I am totally reluctant to move from the brand I have trusted for over 40 years, owning concurrently, both gas models and charcoal kettles and replacing various parts when they have outlived their usefulness.

The ONLY things I have had to replace on either models (save for two of the four kettles I have owned that just plum wore out; one of the kettle grills, my first, was replaced when I “graduated” from the 18” to the 22.5” model. I gifted the smaller one to my brother, who continued using it for about another 12 years.) were “flavorizer” bars and the grates). I received my first gas-burning Weber Genesis in 1987 as a gift from my father-in-law and replaced it in 2002.

I have “coached” others on THEIR purchase decisions over the years, always singing the praise of Webers, but I am quite sadly “done”, I am disappointed to say.

I simply cannot buy from someone who has abandoned its principles AND its loyal followers. - I'm very sorry that you feel that we've abandoned our principles and loyal followers. I can only speak for what I myself observe here at Weber, and that I work with a great team of very passionate people who love our products and work tirelessly to build upon the legacy that George Stephen created when he invented the first Weber kettle. We try to make great products that people will love cooking on, that will last for years, and will help them make memories with their families around them. I can totally appreciate that not every design change will resonate well with every consumer. I loved my 2000 Genesis Silver B, and when it finally bit the dust I was very sad to see it go. It took me a while to warm to my current Spirit E-310, but I've found that I can make everything I used to just as well on it as I used to on my Genesis. I do confess that I don't use it to rotisserie my ducks, but that's only because I now use one of my kettles to rotisserie. As a charcoal Product Manager, most of my cooking happens on my Summit Kamado these days, unless time is a factor and then I fire up the Spirit.

I hope some of this helps, and I really hope you don't feel like Weber has abandoned you. Feel free to let me know if you've got more questions!

Best regards,

John Burns from Weber HQ in Palatine
John, thanks so much for your thoughtful reply and the time you spent preparing it.

It is odd, tho, that the new cookbox does not at all resemble cast aluminum, but instead sure looks like polished stainless steel. I guess I’ll find out when my new Genesis E-315, natural gas-fueled, arrives.

As all the responses suggested, Weber is still the best bet in the market and I would be cutting off my nose to spite my face if I were to purchase from another manufacturer.

Thank you again to all who’ve offered their opinions and guidance. All the best to each of you!
 

 

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