been considering quiting rubbing my butts


 
B

Brian L.

TVWBB Super Fan
I've recentley started considering not rubbing my butts/whole shoulders anymore. I have been dedicated to the eastern NC style and I think rubbing my butts is just screwing up the flavor profile I am shooting for. I have been trimming all fat, painting with mustard and then rubbing with rubs that contain sugar. After I pull my butts I pack as much as I can in a frying pan, add some salt, red pepper, water, and cider vineger and cook unitil the liquid is almost gone.I'm starting to think ribs are really the only BBQ meat that benifits from a rub, and maybe brisket. (I haven't rubbed poultry in years, brining is sufficient IMHO)

I'm starting to think that rubbing my butts is detrimental to my final product. First of all they turn out black. Not burnt or covered in creasote, but black, and that doesn't look very attractive. I've seen pics of traditionalist shoulders and they are dark, golden brown.

Also, how much flavor does rubbing a 15lb shoulder, or even a 7lb butt really add? I think it may be getting in the way of the smoke flavor.

I'm thinking that all that is needed is the smoke flavor, with a hint of an East NC vinegar sauce. If folks want more flavor they can add one of several finishing sauces I provide.

I believe I'm gonna expierement with a more traditionalist style. No more rub and I may try cooking without the water pan to get that fat flavor in the meat.

Thoughts?
 
Brian, I'll start. Minimalist Q probably started as meat cooked over a fire. Then the meat was raised for a longer cook. Fat and any drippings smoldered in the fire. Later salt and pepper seemed to add to the flavor. That was likely the start of Q as we know it.
Enhancements to the taste and texture were mops and rubs.
To make find what you enjoy best, I would do exactly what you propose. Start with the basic cook and add flavor and other 'enhancments'.
Clay has recomended putting fat trimmings in the coals for the cooked fat flavor without changing how most of us use the wsm. For a dry rub, just add a few basic spices that you like in addition to salt and pepper. Sugar, chili powder and paprika can be left out or used sparingly for less color. For a sauce, just a few ingredients are needed. Vinegar, salt, pepper, cayenne and a pinch of brown sugar. You may find the original, simpler way tastes best to you. Or, you may find some spice and sauce compliments your cook. Try it and let us know what works for you.
 
The warming method you describe may be interfering with the flavor you are seeking. Cooking in a skillet until the liquid is gone may not be the method of choice for reheating.
Try reheating slowly with microwave or vacubag...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You may find the original, simpler way tastes best to you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, you might. Personally, I think rub adds tremendously to butt--any meat, truth be told, though they need not be complicated. The frying pan might be getting in the way of what you seek.

I find the flavors of smoke and plain Q'd meat, frankly, rather flat and I think it is more difficult to marry rubs to meat to smoke to cooking to sauce and finish successfully than to cook plain. Though I think that it is true that one might be able to cover up inferior or poorly prepared meat with sauce (I much prefer sauce served on the side), I usually find that the sauce (if it is any good) doesn't really hide problems if they exist. I have never bought the argument that no-rubbed or simply rubbed meat simply smoked is the be-all end-all of barbecue (despite the breathless prose one sees extolling central Texas barbecue--it's not really all that wonderful to me and, honestly, I don't think to all that many people either, food writers notwithstanding; great atmospheres at the lauded places though).

So, I agree with Steve and support your effort to start with virtually nothing and go from there. You may find that you prefer very little in the the end, but I'd encourage you to try different approaches to flavors and flavoring and see what you think. You asked for thoughts and these are mine. Though I feel that barbecue to be good requires enhancements not everyone agrees of course. I like playing with different things flavor-wise because I like doing that sort of thing and I think the best Q reflects the skill of the cook and his/her ability to match meat/rub/smoke with technique to produce tenderness and build a flavor profile of great flavor(s) and a sauce (if one wishes) to go along with that. I think it is worth seeking out and trying different ideas to build flavor before abandoning flavor potential(s) to the much-less-is-more approach. That's my 2 cents anyway.
 
Brian,

You may like it without rub. I recently found out Blue Ribbon BBQ here in the Boston area, which makes a wonderful and authentic pulled pork, doesn't rub their shoulders, just their ribs. I'm going to engage in some experimenting in this area, too.

I'm not sure I understand the frying pan at the end. We usually pull and sauce the pork when it's hot and serve it. If we're holding it, we usually cover the sauced pork and put it in a warm oven. What is it that the method you describe is meant to do?

Thanks,
Dudley Rose
 
I'd be very interested in hearing how a cook went with no water pan and a butt in the WSM. I'd guess you'd need to flip it alot and only use the top grate.
 
I think what I was trying to accomplish in the pan was to spread the smokey flavor throughout and get a hint of tang throughout the whole batch. An old pro named Tom Solomon recommends this practice and I do kinda like it.

I have been happy with my Q, just looking to move in new directions, looking for improvement/refinement. I've rubbed butts since the beginning and I do think the best place to begin is without rubs,glazes,or mustard. I can refine my cooking methods and then build in a new direction. Putting the chunks of fat in the fire instead of cooking without the pan is a very interesting idea, gotta be easier than flipping. I'll have to try both methods.

I'm on the road a lot and that leaves little time for experimentation. When I get home I know what I make works so I genenerally stick to the script. I used to experiment all the time and I just sorta fell into a rut.

I am gonna get experimenting as soon as I can, and I'll report the results.
Thanks
 
Bill & Tom, I have only gone panless for a chicken cook. I have read on this forum of others who sometimes do not use a pan. Perhaps they will comment.
 
Falling into a rut is oh so easy. We work hard at making good Q and it takes a days work to taste our results. When we find something that works we do it.

When we do experiment and it turns out so so, its hard to take being you just spent all day cooking.

If you cook it right and experiment I guarantee it wont be bad. Maybe not the best, but it will still be worth while.

Another way to experiment is try different sauces. You can still make your regular sauce for back-up, but a different sauce can really change the flavor too.

Go for it. Experiment. You just might find something better!
 
Brian,

I so the KCBS competitions and have only found 1 or 2 teams that don't use a rub on their butts, but I have thought the same thing of trying one without anything and see what happens. I have gotten so used to the rub I just haven't made myself try it yet, and I think the judges want it with a rub in comp anyway.

This conversation has encoureged me to try it.
 
Sounds interesting to go rubless, but I don't think I could bring myself to do it. That outer rub crust is my favorite part of the butt.
 
I think the Caja China people write their instuctions so as not to scare off the 'masses' with instructions that might make the process look difficult. I can't imagine anyone in Miami (where they're from) even thinking of roasting pig (butts or whole) without a day or two marinade in a homemade mojo. First thing my neighbor did when she picked up hers was to raid my calamondin tree and get a mojo going. Then she waited till I got in to explain the insructions to her.

I'm with Mike B. I grew up on bland food. It wasn't remarkable or memorable. I've pretty much tried to avoid it since though on the road you run into it a lot.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm starting to think that rubbing my butts is detrimental to my final product. First of all they turn out black. Not burnt or covered in creasote, but black, and that doesn't look very attractive. I've seen pics of traditionalist shoulders and they are dark, golden brown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The rub that you have been using and the pits temps are the determining factors to the finished product. The amount of paprika, sugar, smoke and pit temps give you the finish color.
Jim
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill Mengel:
I'd be very interested in hearing how a cook went with no water pan and a butt in the WSM. I'd guess you'd need to flip it alot and only use the top grate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill,
That is my preferred method for cooking butts. I put one or two on the top grate, fat cap down. I don't flip at all. They come out great; nice bark and still very moist inside.
Just my 2 cents.

Jim
--
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve Petrone:
You probably use less charcoal too...what else do you cook panless? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I go panless most of the time. I only use the pan when I'm using both grates (rarely) or when I want a heat deflector for something on the top grate. When I do use the pan I use it dry; I almost never use water. I don't find that water in the pan brings much to the party.
I've found that I prefer using the pan for spares; direct tends to make too hard of a bark for ribs. Also I use a pan for fish. And when making pastrami and Canadian bacon, which I like to smoke rather slowly.

Jim
--
 
I had a bullet before I got the kettle but after I got the kettle I have always used it to cook my butts. I from the western part of n.c.and I just don't like the eastern style BBQ. I don't mean to start a argument over eastern and western style BBQ.I heard this all my life. Red Bridges and Bill Allen both from Shelby went to Lexington N.C.in the 1950s and worked for serval years to learn how cook BBQ. They both came back and opened two BBQ joints. We still have two Bridges restaurants run by his family. Bill Allen and then his son run theirs till the son retired last year. My work moved me to Raleigh and I had to learn to cook BBQ that I liked.Last Sat. night I went with some friends to Allen & Son in Chaple Hill and had some good eastern style BBQ. But it was not what expect for BBQ. So what I'm trying to say everyone has his own tast. The slaw has a lots to do with it. In the western N.C. we make a red slaw. It is real simple we just catsup,a little vingar, and texaspete to your tast. Harold
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top