A philosophical question


 
I'll say this, my brother uses an electric smoker, and turns out some of the best chicken I have ever had. Is it BBQ? I don't call it that, but I call it very tasty.
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Guru share similaritites with the electric smoker? They do both use electric, I'll give you that, and they both control the cook to a point that the temp will not deviate.
The Guru is almost a "plug and play" now. I don't have the time to worry about 'tending a smoker for a 24 hour smoke. Fill it with fuel, meat on, guru on, forget it. Watch the food channel, a lot of the great "Q" joints were using cookers with dials on them to control temps.
Some DO think it is Q only when stick burners are used. Opinions vary. Maybe it is only "Q" if you have a fire and put the food on a stick and hold it yourself there to cook. Wait a minute, that would make toasting marshmellows "Q" lol.


I do think power is used at comps, or else the pellet users would be in trouble. At least the autofeed part would be.
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Your right about "boundries" people may put on things. On avery board I go to, people all have their view of what BBQ is. I have no problem with what anyone uses to cook great food. Use electic assist, or start your fire by rubbing two sticks together.
If I was in it for the tradition/art of it, I would have a stick burner.
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I have no direct experience with smoking using electricity vs coals, but I do have experience with grilling steaks on a Weber kettle and a Weber gasser vs a Jenn-Aire indoor electric grill. There is no comparison. Same cut of steaks with same seasonings are so much better on Weber equipment. In fact, the last time I used my Jenn-Aire for grilling was 7 years ago when we had torrential rains here.

Ray
 
This is alot like discussions about whether a gas grill really gives the same flavor as charcoal . . . or sand vs. water.

If you only are looking at the final product, the it seems to me that heat at a given temp + wood smoke + meat = Q, no matter what the heat source.

There are differences in electric heat v. charcoal. For instance, electric heat isn't (usually) constant. It's ON until the thermostat reaches the set temp, then it's OFF (at least in most small-appliance apllications). Charcoal is not even heat either; there are hot spots and spots where there's no fire at all. This may have an effect on the wood smoke, since some will be created by high temp, some by low temp. Charcoal require oxygen, so air flow is required that is not necessary for electric heat. Charcoal does have a flavor that can be imparted to the meat in some cases.

And the list probably goes on, too.

My point is that electrics can probably turn out decent edibles, just like any other way of cooking barbecue. It gets down to the raw materials used, the methods used, and the skill of the operator.

Phil, sounds like you have the opportunity to do some real research. It would fun to hear about a side-by-side comparison.
 
At least he's not par-boiling then baking
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The Kevinator makes a good point. This is not Q.

Bryan--

Going through Lancaster later. Coulda been dinner time (!) but they're so unorganized here my feeling is I'll be lucky if it's midnight. Need to be in a N Philly suburb in the a.m.

Scott--

I was at the one in Muskegon, south side of town, on Pontaluna. (Is there more than one!?) Yes, kitsch all over the place, a la TGI Friday's, and all the other places that do kitsch as 'original' decor. Got a good bike ride in from 31 to the lake and back though.
 
I wouldn't use an electric smoker, for the same reason that I wouldn't make home made ice cream in an electric freezer - just a personal preference for the more traditional method, irrespective of the comparability of the end result. (And yes, the WSM isn't as traditional as a fire in a pit in the ground. I also don't cut ice off the frozen pond and store it in a cellar full of sawdust, to make my ice cream. A man's gotta draw the line somewhere!)
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Well Larry, there's a blast from the past. Ice cream the old way. I remember being really young, and my Dad making us turn the crank, and crank, and crank. I hated it!
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The results were good, but didn't like being on the crank detail lol.
 
Not only do I have a WSM but I also have a Brinkmann Charcoal fired water smoker and an electric fired unit. The electric is sitting in my shed gathering dust bunnies. It just didn't cook the way I thought it should. I ended up using the charcoal Brinkmann a lot more when I REALLY wanted to smoke something whether it was turkeys or ribs. There is something about the process. Smelling the smoke ,tending the fire, and just enjoying the whole process as an event.
 
Ok, the issue is taste, right? So, lets ask the question this way...

If you cook a slab of ribs (plain, nothing on them) over fire only (no wood) and you do the same in an electric cooker, would you be able to tell the difference in the flavor of the meat?

I have not tried this but I believe the answer would be a resounding yes! Electric cookers are just outdoor ovens (some indoors)... they produce heat but not flavor, but charcoal cookers by default must produce light smokey flavor even without wood added... because charcoal is made from wood. Scientifically speaking, how can there not be a siginificant flavor difference?

Tony
 
Originally posted by Tony Hunter:
but charcoal cookers by default must produce light smokey flavor even without wood added... because charcoal is made from wood. Scientifically speaking, how can there not be a siginificant flavor difference?
Tony
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I think this is the cruxt of it. Does charcoal provide any smoke flavor at all?

My mom has a weber performer, and I've used it quite a bit. Did a lot of long (relatively speaking) indirect cooking on it...pork chops, ribs, etc. Personally, I never tasted any smokey flavor. But maybe it's just that I don't have very good taste buds...I don't know. My take on it is that if you are grilling a steak/burger etc. over charcoal or gas, there is no difference. BUT, imagine you cooked a butt in the WSM with no wood...just charcoal. I wonder if there would be any taste difference.

Sounds like it's time to test this theory! I'll put one butt in the oven at 250, and one butt in the WSM on 250 (try to get it as close as possible) and keep all the other parameters as close as possible (take them off at the same internal temp, use the same rub, etc.). Then, do a blind taste test and see if people can tell the difference. Maybe this weekend...
 
Originally posted by Kevin S. (Kevinator):
Yes, like someone's sig line confesses, "I ain't too proud to foil." I'm considering the use of wood pellets for smoke. But no, I won't be using a Guru -- or an electric anything. Those are the boundaries I've set for myself... everybody gets to set their own.

Amen to that Kevin. Except for the pellets, you hit my take on the head.

Tony, in the case of ribs or anything that is cooked for a sustained amount of time, there is a distinct taste difference between charcoal and just gas or electricity. Now cooking burgers or steaks (high temps, short time) or anything else under an hour (approximately) would not bring much of a taste difference. This is technically broiling and the flavor would not have a chance to penetrate the meat. Now add wood. The taste gap would be narrowed by a great degree. But the amount of smoke chunks give as opposed to chips is pretty fair. Plus, in charcoal you get the added flavor of the wood compounds that make it up.

Besides taste, we must think of dependability. I have no doubt that my WSM could be fired up for many years with little or no caring. Heck, I'm hoping to someday teach my 3 year old son to use the exact same one that I am using. Can you say the same for the Electric element that runs those type of smokers? I'd have to think that anything electric that is left in the elements and/or receives little or no care, has little chance of survival for more than a couple of years. Depending on where you live, its lifespan could be significantly less.
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I love my Bullet but there are some really great pellet smokers out there and I want one. Not that the Bullet wont be used, just part of my future cater/bbq joint plans.
 
Interesting thread. I'm anxious to hear how Phil's experiment comes out. IMO .. charcoal must produce some flavor.

So far as using electric in comps, it's normally not allowed. KCBS rule # 8 - Fires must be of wood, pellets, or charcoal. No electric or gas grills permitted. Propane permitted as fire starter only. Electric accessories such as spits, augers, or forced draft are permitted.

Now I did see a propane cooker/smoker that looked pretty cool. Any input on that?

Rick
 
Originally posted by Rick Kramer:
Interesting thread. I'm anxious to hear how Phil's experiment comes out. IMO .. charcoal must produce some flavor.

Rick
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Oh it will put a whole different flavor on the butt. I never did a side by side but i have been cooking Pork and Kraut on the WSM since last Oct using Lump and nothing else. Trust me the charcoal works it's magic on the Butts. Here's a link to a thread about how the Butt comes out over charcoal with no added smoke wood. Scroll down to my post's and read the results if you wish.
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Pork and Kraut on the WSM
 
There appear to be two camps: taste and event.

Taste: I can't believe that one couldn't distinguish between charcoal/lump/wood and electric, but then I've never done a comparison. There's a lady who has a meat shop that does briskets and butts in a small reefer-sized electric with wood pellets. Very good product and consistent quality.

Event: Q for me is an event. My overnighters (Friday into Saturday) always give me a great deal of satisfaction. I guess the word I'd use to best describe it is 'pride'. I'm proud of the quality, the effort I put into it, and the compliments I receive from my consumers. Like most here, I like to discuss it -- successes and mistakes -- as a hobby or an amateur status.

This board offers me many opportunities to vicariously enjoy other folks' successes and failures. It provides the whole spectrum from rookies (me) to competition barbeque. It is the love the WSM that draws us together.

So, I'd echo Kevin and Kevin S. and others and say that, if it wasn't for my WSM, I'd be filling my time doing things other than Q.
 
I just want to put myself in the "taste" camp with Tony and Phil. I can definitely taste the difference between using charcoal versus electric (or gas, for that matter). For grilling, the difference between charcoal and gas doesn't matter that much to me, so I use a gasser for steaks and burgers (but wouldn't use something electric). For BBQ, I believe the difference between electric and gas is large enough for me to use the WSM.

And when doing overnighters, I value sleep more than playing with fire, so I use a Guru.
 
I have access at a relatives house to an electric smoker. I have used it 2 or 3 times for some pulled pork, ribs, and chicken (as the family 'Q expert). I think their model is a Brinkman something or other.

I do not notice any significant difference in the taste of thje food I can produce on their smoker vs. my WSM. I do usually use lots of wood chips, to compensate for not being able to use chunks.

I have a REALLY hard time getting the temperatures to go UP with the thing. It wants to run cool. I haven't used it on cold or raingy days. It has one temperature. That temperature is usually 200-220, or sometimes 190, or whatever it wants to run at.

-Matt
 
Originally posted by Matthew Appler:
It has one temperature. That temperature is usually 200-220, or sometimes 190, or whatever it wants to run at.
-Matt
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This is the problem with my dad's (and mine, before I got my WSM). It was a thermomete on it, if you can call it that. The face is blank with one long green section lebeled "IDEAL" where the one above it says "Too hot" and the section below it says "Too cold". The smoker usually runs at the upper end of "Too cold".

What my dad usually does is smoke the ribs for about 3 hours, then onto the gasser to finish. I notice a huge difference between his ribs and mine, at least in texture.
 
Running cool was exactly the same issue I had with my charbroil smoker. I don't think that thing ever got above 220. As a result, I had a hard time generating smoke unless I put a chunk right up next to the heating element.
 
I don't know why I missed this thread earlier, but here is my take on it:

Growing up I can remember my mom doing steaks on the stove, electric one, and having to butter the crap out of it to give it a nice exterior. I also remember my dad doing steaks on the natural gas grill that the house had out on the patio. I also remember waiting for the steaks from gas grilled to gas grilled and telling my mom that the steaks were good, *cough*, in the times between.

Now, I have an LP grill that I have been using ever since I have been married, going on 9 years now, and I will probably always use LP for the quick burger or dogs that I want to grill. BUT, I will NEVER have ribs on anything other than a smoker after this past weekend of doing my first set of racks. The taste of the meat was far superior to anything I have ever had, with the exception of Bridge's bBQ in Shely, on any type of cooking medium. I am also looking forward to my first pulled pork, and trying to get the right info for my smoker to do jerky on it, but I am sure that these will taste far better than anything produced from an electric oven, LP cooker, or electric dehydrator for that matter.

I would say that yes the lump/charcoal will produce its own flavor on the meat, my brother-n-law uses only charcoal and his burgers have a different flavor and texture than mine done on the LP, and because of this I think that it is not just a matter of being a traditionalist, but an ENTHUSIAST of taste.

Just my take on this excellent topic, and one that I am sure will never really be solved. Several posts mention that it depends on the human factor, which ultimately it does! Take someone who is an excellent kitchen chef and have them prepare something in a smoker the first time and it will proably taste different than the original cooked the way they normally do it. BUT, if you give that recipe to a smoker, it will probably turn out BETTER than the original method.
 
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