"Where is my meat-side?" And other beefy questions.


 
Jonas-Switzerland

Jonas-Switzerland

TVWBB Super Fan
Some have seen my post about wanting to cook a brisket for my dad, and how hard it is for me to get the right cut

(Had talked to a nice butcher, and used the german terminology I googled. He said: "Oh, yeah I get it. The cut with the big bones inside. That's the brisket isn't it?")

I finally found a brisket. This is going to be my "training brisket" for a neighborhood gathering. But my brisket came pre-trimmed... Which would be the "meat" side?
Side A:
IMG_20240814_200631.jpg

Side B:
IMG_20240814_200621.jpg

I guess it is side B. Even though it has more fat on it, it has a visible "hump" from the point muscle. Side A is "flat"

If so, I do not have a layer of fat which protects the meat.



And as a side note, I also got another chuck piece, which I plan to do pulled beef with. It has a nice layer of fat. Do you trim it, or leave it on? IMG_20240814_203132.jpg
 
That's an odd looking brisket. It has fat on both sides which is unusual. Usually when one buys a packer here in America, one side will have a lot of meat exposed which would be considered the flat side. The side with the thick fat would be the point side.

When you say "meat side", I guess you mean lean flat side.

From your photos, it appears side A is the flat side and Side B is the point side. I'm guessing this from the amount of fat I see. Here in America, nobody would take that much fat off the point side, which makes me think it must be the flat side.

I would look at some youtube videos and trim that brisket up. There is a good chance it's not trimmed correctly.

You'd want that thick fat on the point side to be trimmed down to about a quarter inch. Check to see that it is close. You can make a small incision into the fat to look for meat and check the fat depth. A quarter inch of fat is perfect because it will render down to almost nothing, leaving the seasoning and the meat and the flavor.

Remember - the point and flat muscles overlap in the middle. But there is significantly more point (fatty) muscle on the thick lump half of the brisket, and the thinner flatter half of the brisket is more flat muscle or lean. A layer of fat separates the two muscles.

But the overlap means, if you slice from the center, you'll get both point and lean in the slice, separated by a layer of fat.

There is silverskin on the flat side which most cooks like to remove.

However, I like the idea of having a layer of fat on the flat side because it would help protect it. The biggest challenge of cooking a whole brisket is serving it so that the flat muscle is tender and juicy! The point is easy. Even experienced seasoned cooks will often dry out the lean flat. So this trim that you have is interesting. All that fat on the lean side might work in your favor.

Re top vs bottom, I believe it's best to cook a brisket dependent on your cooker. Consider the radiant heat, and consider the draft. I think most people regard the point side as the top of the brisket, and the lean flat side as the bottom.

If your cooker is mostly bottom up, such as a vertical smoker, I'd cook the brisket upside down, which is to say, point side down, fatty side down, lean flat side up - to protect the flat.

If your cooker is top down, like a typical large commercial offset such as we see so often on youtube, and you're laying your brisket on the far end near the stack and far away from the firebox, I'd cook it point side up. Just about every brisket cook on youtube is point side up.

But I believe Harry Soo, who often uses a WSM in competition, cooks his brisket upside down. And he wins.

On an offset, you'd want the large point end closer to the heat source.

The cheaper homeowner offsets (COS) are almost all bottom up. So I'd cook the brisket point down, flat up.

Good luck

P.S. Re the "chuck piece", I don't recognize that. It doesn't look like any Chuck they sell around here. I would take the fat off.
 
Yeah, we don't do briskets here. I am happy that it looks like all the meat is there. The trim is weird.

I watched mad scientist's video. He talks about "fat" side and "meat" side.


So you say "point" side typically has a layer of trimmed down fat, and is what the dude calls "fat" side? Just so I don't get more things mixed up.

I ponder what to do. I read that salt does not penetrate fat, so I probably want to trim down one side of the brisket. I may do an executive decision and trim off side "A" regardless, since it looks like it has the thinner fat layer.

Upside down cooks is out.Maybe I introduce upside down trims! :D
 
Last edited:
Mark_E said:
P.S. Re the "chuck piece", I don't recognize that. It doesn't look like any Chuck they sell around here. I would take the fat off.
Click to expand...
Welcome to my world of translating cuts.

Here is a german chart
rindfleisch-default.jpg

Its piece Nr 6. Its labeled as "Schulterspitz" here in my region. Nr7 is your flat iron steak. When I google "chuck", I get charts where the whole area is a chuck.

Normally I don't get this piece with a fat cap. I wonder if the fat cap helps or hinders in cooking pulled beef.
 
That cut looks a bit off.
Heck even Tony’s pic looks a bit off to me.
I wonder what the look on the butchers face would be if you asked for a tri-tip.
Have you ever ate a tri-tip Jonas?

I spent a good portion of my youth growing up in Nuremberg and the beef cuts were definitely not like I’ve had in the west coast .
 
Andy Kaminski said:
That cut looks a bit off.
Heck even Tony’s pic looks a bit off to me.
I wonder what the look on the butchers face would be if you asked for a tri-tip.
Have you ever ate a tri-tip Jonas?
Click to expand...
Tri-tip is actually easy, its called a "Bürgermeisterstück" (Mayor piece). I did one years ago when I started out with my spirit grill. I did an unremarkable piece. Its on the list to revisit with the WSM.

But I think it fell out of style in the last century. I have never seen it served in any restaurant here.

Back to the brisket. I am convinced it is only vaguely the right cut. I did some executive decisions. I left the fat on "side B", the presumed "Point side". Things got weird on the other side. I had a few strains of thick fat there. Once I removed it, it began looking like the "meat side/flat side" from the brisket trimming videos.
IMG-20240818-WA0001.jpg
The fat layer was barely attached in some places, and left me with some silver skin on the meat. However, I did not take the layer off along the whole length of the meat. The flat would have become really thin otherwise. Not sure if I am missing part of the flat on the "Point side".

And this was a family project. Meaning I had to manage small kids as well. This is what I was able to pull off.
IMG_20240818_102232.jpg
Already thin side:
IMG_20240818_102158.jpg
IMG_20240818_103321.jpg
Now back in the fridge. I do a dry brine out of necessity. This brisket has already screwed up all my plans. It thawed quicker, and now it has a weird trim.

Anyways. When life gives you lemons, make some tallow
IMG_20240818_122203.jpg
 

Attachments

  • IMG-20240818-WA0004.jpg
    IMG-20240818-WA0004.jpg
    118.7 KB · Views: 2
I bought my USDA Prime brisket through a specialty meat company. I had a look at their meats today, and found another "swiss beef brisket".

Swiss brisket cover imageproduct_24_Swiss-beef-brisket-024-Bearbeitet_1.jpg

USDA prime brisket cover image
Product_24_us-brisket.jpg

Source

Huh.

Do swiss cows have different chests? I'm gonna call them when I have actual spare time.
 
International beef cuts and by name:

en.wikipedia.org

Cut of beef - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

American cut beef is always at the 13th rib and then broken down from hind quarter and forward quarter, once a half beef has been cut (full side hung from hot weight (the weight of a freshly cut animal) to dried (aged for moisture to evaporate).

i am not a beef expert but have picked up a bunch of info as I searched for Vacio (Argentine) cut beef here in California. this Vacio cut has to be ordered from the farm so the animal is cut correctly as to not slice the Vacio in half. i learned that Argentine beef is cut at rib 11 or 12, depending on the size of the animal.
 
Brett-EDH said:
International beef cuts and by name:

en.wikipedia.org

Cut of beef - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

American cut beef is always at the 13th rib and then broken down from hind quarter and forward quarter, once a half beef has been cut (full side hung from hot weight (the weight of a freshly cut animal) to dried (aged for moisture to evaporate).

i am not a beef expert but have picked up a bunch of info as I searched for Vacio (Argentine) cut beef here in California. this Vacio cut has to be ordered from the farm so the animal is cut correctly as to not slice the Vacio in half. i learned that Argentine beef is cut at rib 11 or 12, depending on the size of the animal.
Click to expand...
Porter Road has been featuring the vacio for a couple months now. It looks like they are on a wait list right now, but they usually do a good job of clearing out their backordered cuts.

www.porterroad.com/collections/beef/products/vacio
 
Anyways, I got around to talking to the guys. Very friendly and helpful.

Big difference between American and Swiss Brisket is the cow breed itself. Swiss cows are smaller. Afull packer from a swiss cow is between 8 to 10 pounds at the upper end.

Then there seems to be translation issues in the butchering, because the "full packer" cut does not exist here.

Also interesting side note, in Switzerland the marbeling is different between summer and winter butchering. During the summer swiss cows are leaner, and take on fat during the fall/winter.

Putting all of it together, it starts to make some sense. The swiss brisket was almost 14 pounds. I must have taken off 2 pounds of clean fat alone.
 
When I lived in Arizona, the local university had an some sort of program for growing beef, and they sold the proceeds of teaching growing and butchering in a strange room at the school office, but it was good stuff. I got a couple of really small briskets from them, but they were good. I was a little surprised, I think one was 7 lbs, and I didn't even bother to trim it, but it had a definite flat and point. I actually cooked that one on my 22" grill and it turned out really well. I would say the quality of how the beef was raised was better than the size, so don't worry too much about size, if it is the correct cut.

You might just have to come to america to do some american cuts, and become and expert on what you can get.

On a side note, I lived a summer near Brienz, working in a restaurant (kind of), and never really had a chance for any bbq there. Of course, this was 35 years ago, and I wasnt really into bbq at the time, so I wasn't looking, but I did see a few cows and more sheep up in the mountains.

Later, I spent some time in Germany, and has some "grilling" and it was never quite like American, but it was good.

Good Luck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

 

Back
Top