What is smoking???

[j biesinger]

Sounds like a dumb question, eh?

Well I thought I knew what it was but after a recent conversation with a "pitmaster" at a grilling store showing me around a primo, one of us must be confused.

He kept making the point that if your cooker isn't running 200-250 you aren't really smoking.

I suppose higher temps imply smoke roasting but I figure as long as you have hardwood as part of your fuel you're smoking, regardless of your temp. help me if I'm wrong.

He also dropped the "don't bother with wood after the first hour" because the meat has "absorbed all it can." I know for a fact that I can lay smoke on meat just as well in the last hour as the first. I can only guess this popular myth comes from the fact that the ring stops forming within the first hour. Since the assumption is that the smoke ring indicates "absorbed smoke" so when the ring stops so does "smoke absorption."

The last thing that got me wondering was that he says that when he runs the primo, he lets it overshoot his target temp and shuts it down so he can catch his temp as the cooker's temp is falling. I said that with the wsm you have to catch it on the way up or your toast and if you overshoot you have to live with it. He reiterated that it was no problem to get the cooker to drop temp. Meanwhile, my wife an I are staring at the cooker as it was pegged at 300* even after he stopped cooking with it over an hour ago. Sure the ceramic cookers are better sealed and could probably choke a hot fire better that the wsm, but I find it hard to believe a couple 100 pounds of ceramic will change temp quick enough.

 

[K Kruger]

I find that hard to believe too.


As for smoking --well, I defer to the CW that 'cold' smoking takes place at very low temps, the smoke rather than heat being the main 'cooking' or presrvative factor; 'hot' smoking is from the top end of cold to, say, ~the mid-to-mid/upper 200s; it's smoke-roasting or grill-roasting (or whatever your nomenclature of choice after that.

The silliness of '"don't bother with wood after the first hour" because the meat has "absorbed all it can"' well, both statements define credulity.

 

[j biesinger]

As for smoking --well, I defer to the CW that 'cold' smoking takes place at very low temps, the smoke rather than heat being the main 'cooking' or presrvative factor; 'hot' smoking is from the top end of cold to, say, ~the mid-to-mid/upper 200s; it's smoke-roasting or grill-roasting (or whatever your nomenclature of choice after that.

I'm with you on the cold smoking part, but over 200*, heat plays a roll in breaking down the meat no matter what the temp. I'm not sure at what temp browning comes in but I suppose that could be another cut off. but it all seems like artificial categories, to say that something different happens at 250* but not 300*. help me out here.

at the time, I was wondering if he was talking about combustion of wood. for instance, over 300* wood combustion is so complete, that little to no "smoke" is produce. But I suppose this had more to do with what I had read in another thread here and had been thinking about lately.

 

[K Kruger]

but it all seems like artificial categories, to say that something different happens at 250* but not 300*. help me out here.

The deference I note means that I tend to use the same terms much as the CW does, not that I don't think they are artificial as well. I do. But using the terms in the company of 'smokers' means that most automatically understand what you are talking about upfront.

 

[David Lohrentz]

When a lot of people got started with smoking meat, there was a fairly strong orthodoxy that said BBQ = low and slow. That orthodoxy has been debunked fairly well both for competitive and non-competitive smokers, although clearly not with this primo "pitmaster." But even for those who have moved beyond the old orthodoxy, I think it is human nature that once our brains create ways of categorizing the world, it becomes difficult to undo those internal partitions.

 

[j biesinger]

being a science teacher, I have major pet peeves about misinformation. I spend most of the school day engaged in the near impossible task of trying to reprogram kids' heads that are literally packed with misinformation.

I need justification for doing something or I won't do it, and its very difficult to find good information relating to bbq. I'd be willing to bet there's more misinformation available than facts. I suppose that's why I spend so much time around here, I get the feeling that the majority of the board is this way too.

Its funny because bbq'ing with the wsm isn't that hard, but its very difficult to figure it out when you basing your cooking on misinformation.

 

[Shawn W]

I think you're smoking regardless of temp if you are using smoke. Even though the wood burns as you say, you can still add smoke even at grilling temps, I do it all the time. That's grilling with smoke.

But anyway, I saw an egg 5 hours after grilling and dampers closed still showing just over 200F inside according to their dome therm.

I can't see a Primo being much different.

I think you were much more an expert than he.

 

[Brad W]

I don't agree with the ".. after one hour ... no wood ..." remark. On the other hand I've read in several places that meat won't "take in" smoke flavoring after the meat has reached 160F. I tend to throw enough wood (I think) for a full smoke and probably won't change my ways but was just wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were.

I also know from experience that it's easier to dial in temps on EVERY smoker I've used (including Green Eggs) on the way up. Once the cooker material (metal, ceramic, whatever) hits a temp it takes a long time to lower a temp.

 

[Bryan S]

Cooking food over smoke wood, no matter the temp.

 

[Doug D]

We call our WSMs "smokers". But we are not smoking, we are barbecuing. My definition of barbecue has always fallen within these parameters:

Barbecue is the practice of cooking:

* typically (but not limited to) less-than-tender cuts of meat,
* at relatively low temperatures, usually between 212 and 250 degrees Fahrenheit,
* for long cooking times, usually four or more hours,
* preferably over a charcoal, or wood coal fired, indirect heat source,
* typically including the additional burning of smoke woods to impart certain desired flavor characteristics,
* the end result being tender and flavorful in a way not possible using higher temperatures and shorter cooking times.

 

[Brad W]

Originally posted by Bryan S:
Cooking food over smoke wood, no matter the temp.

I agree with Bryan. Grilling is high temp and quick, bbq is low and slow and smoking is using wood to use smoke as a flavoring/preservative regardless of the temperature. At least in my book.

 

[j biesinger]

I don't agree with the ".. after one hour ... no wood ..." remark. On the other hand I've read in several places that meat won't "take in" smoke flavoring after the meat has reached 160F. I tend to throw enough wood (I think) for a full smoke and probably won't change my ways but was just wondering what other peoples thoughts on this were.

what I believe (from reading and experience) is that smoke sticks to the outside of the meat forming a layer. Meat does not absorb smoke. I suppose this layer can be a complete covering after an hour but whether it can be built up to a thicker layer after that initial hour remains to be determined. I feel that foiling, and steam inside the foil, sort of "washes off" the smoke layer (evidence that smoke is not absorbed) and that the juice in the foil is very smokey. I like to add wood after opening the foil, while drying the bark, to build the smoke layer back up.

I have to think that this: after the first hour, up to 160*, meat stops "absorbing" smoke are all observations associated with smoke ring formation, which we know is a completely different process than smoke layering.

I like the idea that there is a difference between smoking and barbecue. I'll say that smoking involves smoke, and barbecue involves smoke and heat. I'd make a second division in the barbecue class, determined by the type of heat indirect, or direct (which we could call grilling). I refuse to think that there is a divide at a particular temp, I just don't see how there's enough of a fundamental difference between what happens at 250* as opposed to 300*.

 

[K Kruger]

but whether it can be built up to a thicker layer after that initial hour remains to be determined.

Not really in question. Smoke particulates, if present, will continue to adhere. Nothing to stop them from doing so.

 

[Shawn W]

In addition to cessation of ring formation, maybe somewhere along the line folks mixed up 'all the smoke it needs for a smoke taste' with 'all the smoke it will take'. A couple of hours in smoke is usually enough to give a nice smoke flavor.

I like the distinction between indirect and direct for smoking. I think I'll include indirect in my definition of smoking when I write my book

.

I refuse to think that there is a divide at a particular temp

I partially disagree with that, particularly where we are using time@temp to tenderize. The line may be fuzzy, or a range but I think it's there. It's more like too much heat energy applied for a certain amount time cooks the item before tenderizing happens.

Take three 1.5" pork shoulder butt steaks. Grill one (direct) around 400F, smoke one around 250F and roast one around 350F.

The grilled one should be quite tough, the connective tissues inedible. The smoked one should be shredable after a time but at the very least much more tender. The oven roasted one somewhere in between.

 

[Jon Merka]

as for me i am not a huge fan of heavily smoked BBQ. i like a light smoke flavor so i tend to toss in one chunk of wood only on my wsm's. i find that is the right taste for me.

the salesman you spoke to seemed to be repeating what he heard on a TV bbq special or some other such thing. folks take bits and pieces of what they like and discard the rest as invalid.

i tend to call my wsm's cookers nowadays rather than smokers. and i call my ots a grill since i tend to grill steaks burgers dogs chcken and fish on it just to distinguish it to the wife as to what type of meat she wants. basically if i want temps up to 350 i use a wsm if i want higher temps for a short cook i use the OTS.

whether it is low and slow hot and fast i call it BBQ as long as it is using a fire that is obtained from coals and not gas. i got a stove in the kitchen if i want broiled food.

 

[Dale Perry]

People confuse BBQ and Grilling everyday. That is nothing new. But I dont care what anyone calls it. If you are cooking outside, you are living large. IMHO.

 

[mike tu]

I dont think the meat absorbs any smoke after the first hour..it will start to build up on meat to leave a bad taste..also smoke does not cause the smoke ring to form..there is another entry on here that explains the science behind smoke ring formation

 

[K Kruger]

Meat does not 'absorb' smoke.

Smokering formation is very much due to smoke. That it does not automatically occur, or that it can be formed in other ways (say, by adding a little curing salt to a rub) is beside the point. Smokerings would form in ovens were smoke not responsible. Smokering formation is a chemical reaction between some gasses and particulates in smoke and the meat's surface (or the nitrite in curing salt and the meat).

 

[j biesinger]

ok, to add some more wood to the fire. I spent today shopping for a new thermometer (time for a permanent install) and I found it interesting that therms marketed for pits had "zones" printed on the dial.

here's tel-tru's:

smoking 150-250
barbeque 250-350
grilling 350-450

and some other brand that I couldn't identify:

smoking 100-225
barbeque 225-375

I partially disagree with that, particularly where we are using time@temp to tenderize. The line may be fuzzy, or a range but I think it's there. It's more like too much heat energy applied for a certain amount time cooks the item before tenderizing happens.

Shawn, I think we can agree that there are minor differences that occur at different temps. but I was originally addressing the idea that you aren't "smoking" anymore once your cooker is over a certain temp.

it will start to build up on meat to leave a bad taste

this shouldn't happen if you have proper combustion. bad taste usually means bad smoke, not too much smoke.

 

[Dale Perry]

this shouldn't happen if you have proper combustion. bad taste usually means bad smoke, not too much smoke.[/QUOTE]

There is a lot or truth in JBs quote.