What do good ribs taste like?


 
D

Dennis T.

TVWBB Super Fan
Failing to find a "Dumb Question" forum, I'll post my question here since it pertains to smoking ribs.

I'm still learning the WSM ropes and conducted my second smoke of baby back ribs yesterday. I must be learning something (old dogs can!) because during this smoke I didn't experience a temperature runaway like I did during my first BB rib smoke.

I smoked the ribs 3.5-1.25-.25 (my variation of 3-2-1) for a total of 5 hours. I kept the lid temperature between 230-240 for the vast majority of the smoke (actually got bored at times).

The ribs were great ... but a cook is his/her worst critic so even as I was eating them I was thinking of what I could do differently next time.

It occured to me that I don't have a clear idea of what I'm chasing. How does one know what great ribs taste like? I liked the ribs very much, but could they be better?

Funny question I know ...
 
no rules, it's what you like. With ribs, one thing is key for me, tenderness with a bit of a tug. It's hard to master, but when you do, you'll love it.


OK, that's not taste, but to each his own on that.

As for your 3-2-1 variation, i'd try a little less time in the foil next time. No more then an hour. You'll still get great results, I promise
 
Hi Jay,

I guess I'm thinking that most people haven't been exposed to great ribs. There's a rib joint that is HUGE around here ... but their ribs are tasteless. I think they're popular because the ribs are tender ... maybe people are used to tough ribs ... but the taste is gone.

(You're in Central Ohio ... perhaps you know the name of the place I'm speaking about ...)
 
Dennis, I am curious as to the name of the restraunt you are talking about. Certainly you aren't talking about the place where the bones are smoky, or could it be burbanks?

Back to the subject at hand. Opinions are like as.. uh nevermind. Anyhow did you put any juice in the foil? I have been using pineapple juice for years. I love the taste it gives or as Jim Minion says a flavor print.

I did finally try the BRITU method recently. They were very good. I will be doing them that way again.

I think the biggest obstacle in finding better is to be willing to try something new. Different rubs. Different juices in the foil. Different smoke woods. You get the point.
 
Maybe its like what a former U.S. Supreme Court justice allegedly said in an opinion about obsenity, "you may not be able to define it specfically, but you know it when you see it."

Hopefully someone like Kevin with a more fluent food vocabulary than me will respond. About all I can say is I know what ribs taste like when I don't like them - too tough, too mushy, bland, too spicey, too smokey, etc., etc.

Paul
 
If you mean Montgomery Inn, great sauce, horrible ribs. Mushy is NOT tender. FYI, I hear they pressure cook their ribs and finish them on the grill (to heat the sauce).

Up here we have a chain trying to populate the country with more bad ribs, Damon's.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jay Rogers:
Up here we have a chain trying to populate the country with more bad ribs, Damon's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They've already come and gone, here.
 
I forgot about montgomery inn. I ate there about 4 years ago I wasn't impressed. That was even before I got my brinkman smoker. Their twice baked potato soup is killer though. Guys at work rave about their ribs. I just shake my head.
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Ahhh Damon's - the place not to go for ribs, we have them up here in Meeeeeeeeeccccchhhheeeegan also. Its kinda like I've said before "You want a little ribs with that sauce?" But all kidding aside Dennis, I wish I had some place to go to where there was something like a gold standard you could compare/aspire to.

ps. you guys are so going down this fall
 
Dennis
Taste is of course very subjective. I would say comparing your ribs to soem resturaunt is a futile expirement. I say you invite 3 folks you like to the house and crank out 5 racks of ribs the way you think they should be done, if there are leftovers you missed the mark. If not you are doing fine. For me the test is picking a nieghbor at random on my street and laying some BBQ on them, if the response is positive I know that I am doing something right. If I dont get my bowl back, I figure i blew that one.

Arthur
 
Paul, I think you said it best in your quote and in what you don't like, an important understanding.

When I shoot for 'taste' (as opposed to taste without quotes) it is a combination of factors. To me taste is one of several issues (texture, aroma, being others), but 'taste' encompasses all. When I pull ribs for serving I want to smell smoke, meat, and spice, with a nuanced whiff of fruit. I like the aroma to be well-blended, no one thing glaring. As Jay remarked, 'tenderness with a bit of a tug' would best describe how I like them cooked. I like the exterior portions of the meat (with the rub) to offer (hmmm, what word do I want here) crispness(?--not exactly but kind of), firmness(?--a little, maybe more of a combo of the two); the interior I want tender and juicy and rich, but not mushy or unctuous. I do not glaze or sauce ribs before pulling for this reason. To me, either interferes with with what I want to feel when I bite (although, for fun, I'm playing with a few glaze ideas that I think would work without affecting the feel). The sauces I make for ribs are very thin, served on the side, and are meant more for dipping or splashing on the cut sides of the ribs. There is some sweet to them, but I'd describe them more as tangy.

For rubs for ribs I like all the ingredients to interact well with each other, the meat, and the foiling juices (I'm using pineapple with bit of strong tamarind at the moment). Because ribs are small and thin (as opposed to butt, say) I don't use carrier agents at all. [Paprika, to me, is a carrier. It blends well with rub ingredients but doesn't have lots of flavor, perfect for 'carrying' the flavorful ingredients as you spread the rub and apply it thickly. Thus, to me, it's great for butt but not for ribs.] I use sugar, but not a lot, proportionately, as I think too much muddies the flavors of the meat and spices, a problem I have with very sweet sauces, especially those applied as a finish (like BRITU's--just my opinion BRITU fans!).

Anyway, if I hit the above proverbial nails on the head when I do my ribs then I know they 'taste' good.

Jeff's point that he 'think the biggest obstacle in finding better is to be willing to try something new,' is apt. That's one of the fun parts too. If you have found an approach you really like but wonder if there are some things that you could do differently, try to hone in on what they (or it) might be. Elements or quantity of the rub? Juice in the foil? Adding more rub at foiling? Upon removal of the foil? Time in foil? No foil? Pick one or two or a few to play with and the next time you do ribs do one rack with your new ideas, the others as you did them before. Then compare and go from there. The other part of the fun is in the tasting.
 
People have different tastes, some this way others that way. I was at a restaurant the other day and in their "country store" I found several big name BBQ sauces. I bought a jar of Arthur Bryants original bbq sauce just because ive heard about this place for years. Well one word describes the taste that I experianced, yuck. My point is A Bryants is a legend in the world of ribs and I think their sauce is nasty. JMHO though. So find out how you like ribs and judge them for yourself.
 
I agree with Kevin. Made some ribs this weekend. The family wanted the ribs covered in "goop". I don't like them that way. It changed the whole flavor of the ribs. They actually tasted better the next day after they sat for awhile. I realized when looking back at my process that more is not better. That includes rubs. I really want to taste the ribs,smell and taste the smoke. The rub should enhance the rib not cover it up like lots of sauce. People who want sauce give it to them on the side. Each cook I'm learning more and more what to shoot for. You guys have been great at giving me ideas on how to continually improve.
 
Yes ... I was speaking of Montgomery Inn. I couldn't find anything current, but here's some snippets from their web page (1999 news)

"The results are in and once again, Montgomery Inn is the #1 rib restaurant and the #1 restaurant featuring barbecue in the entire Unites States. "Restaurants & Institutions" magazine, the benchmark of the foodservice industry, has once again published their listing of America's top 100 independent restaurants.

Ranked by dollar volume, Montgomery Inn at the Boathouse ranked #22 and the original Montgomery Inn came in at #82. With the current expansion and remodeling complete, the original location should join the Boathouse among America's top 25!

Surprisingly, no other restaurant in Ohio, Kentucky, or Indiana were able to crack into America's top 100. That makes Cincinnati's two Montgomery Inn locations the #1 and #2 restaurants in all of Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana."

"Today, the Montgomery Inn is the biggest buyer of pork products (for an independent restaurant) in the United States, currently using between 16 and 20 tons of ribs per week."

"Retail sales of Montgomery Inn Barbecue Sauce has reached nearly ten million bottles. Although the sauce is identical to that served in the restaurant, the real secret to Montgomery Inn's ribs and sauce is the special cooking process and seasonings used."

****

I'm not sure how they cook their ribs, but I often hear that they "steam" them.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think the biggest obstacle in finding better is to be willing to try something new. Different rubs. Different juices in the foil. Different smoke woods. You get the point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff, your comment gets at why I asked the question at the beginning of this thread.

In a relatively short period of time, I've learned to turn out ribs that are the best we've every tasted. It would be easy (and tasty), to just keep repeating what I've done.

Of course, a cook always wants to make the meal better, so I'll be trying new approaches. I just was a little lost regarding which direction to head.

In the end, it makes sense that individual taste should lead the way. I'm sure that within families there can be strong differences of opinion regarding what is best. I would like, however, to taste some "champion" ribs at some point. I need a calibration point.
 
paul, Dale, I agree with both of you. People have different tastes. My comments above reflect mine, that's what I shoot for; many people might have the same or a similar opinion (the group I cook for does!), many might not. If you're not competing and thus cooking for the judges, you might as well pick one arbiter and it might as well be you. (Though I've had many comp people tell me they Q one way for comps--sweet--and another for themselves.) Because I like playing with sauces and because I do sauce development for other people I'm sure I'll be making sauces till I'm stooped over and needing a walker to get around my kitchen (but I'll still be serving the sauces on the side--for ribs anyway). And I'll always tweak my approach; it's fun for me.

Dennis, fuuny, huh? They very well might be #1 'ranked by dollar volume' and might buy more ribs than anyone else. McDonald's could probably say the same about ground beef. Does anyone really think they make the best burger?
 
Well Moonlite bbq in Owensboro Ky has to come close. Montgomery Inn is another place I would like to try but for the most part, every big name Q joint ive tried never has lived up to their name, jmho again. lol
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They very well might be #1 'ranked by dollar volume' and might buy more ribs than anyone else. McDonald's could probably say the same about ground beef. Does anyone really think they make the best burger? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin ... very good point about McD's.

One thing Montgomery Inn excells at, IMO, is service and delivering a consistent product. They are rock solid in both departments.
 
Dale--I like Moonlite's mutton! But I prefer my own.
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I've eaten at many venerated Q joints and many less known Mom&Pops. Abyssmal to very good (and every strata in between). It is not hard to understand how even places that I consider pretty lousy do a good business. Most people don't cook much let alone barbecue. It is they that do not have a reference point. Here's an example: I have a friend with three children all of whom I rarely saw till her separation from her husband a few years ago. Neither she nor her husband really cooked and they all ate the (unfortunately common) diet of food out of boxes, fast food, and chain restaurants. When she and the kids first started coming over a few years ago they all ate 'politely'. I always told them what they were eating, what was in it, how it was prepared. Now, a few years later, they can't wait to come over and eat. The boys (twins, 13 yrs old) eat voraciously; I had to give Mom a variety of herbs and spices for Christmas; one of the boys is totally into growing herbs now and is developing an interst in the subtle qualities of various teas. Mom tells me that the kids frequently use my food as a reference (and hers now as well!), and that fast food and chain restaurants have lost whatever allure they once had for them.
 
Kevin,

Regarding ribs, my experience is that people equate "good" with "tender". It probably isn't an uncommon experience for someone to try to grill/smoke ribs at home and end up with a tough final product. They go to a restaurant like Montgomery Inn and they get a tender rib ... no flavor ... a way too sweet sauce ... but, hey, the ribs are tender.

In fact, two different friends cook ribs via ae grill/boil method and think their ribs are fantastic. Again, tender, but no flavor.

Can anyone relate to being at someone's house for what they call fantastic ribs only to be severely disappointed? Hard to keep a striaght face.

I have met the Rib Snob ... and he is me.
 
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