Weird Coffee maker "issue"


 
LMichaels

LMichaels

TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
So, as much as I love my Breville Precision Brew, lately it's been a little "weird" and IDK if it's me, the coffee I am using or the grinder/grind?
I am seeing lately my grounds not being "wetted" fully across the "bed". Some may recall this was the very reason I gave up on the Moccamaster. Up to the last 6 weeks or so, it's been doing so well, and making a fine brew. But, now I take the basket out after a brew cycle and see one side of the bed relatively "dry".
For those who're unfamiliar the Breville uses a smallish central brew head. Made of silicone. Rather than spreading water out from a large brew head it seems the machine relies on the four openings to push hard enough in to the grinds, and making like a small "volcano". Which is supposed to move the hot water throughout the bed. And it's been doing this VERY well until this point.
So, I thought it was in need of cleaning. So even though not calling for it, I did a full descaling and cleaning of the entire system. Still no love. The water seems to want to orient more to "back" of the bed still. IOW, if it's toward the "wall side" of the machine.
I've tried different grind settings coarser and finer. I've tried different brew settings ("gold, my brew" changing water temp, flow speed, bloom time, etc.) still no love. I'm lost here. So much so last night I ordered yet another new machine from OXO. The OXO Brew 12 Cup thermal machine.
It uses a VERY large brew head, has a water tank that first heats the water to brewing temp, then pumps it up and over the grounds. Last thing I wanted to do was spend more $$$ here but, I'm frustrated. Unlike the Moccamaster (which never would fully wet the grind bed), this machine always behaved perfectly. I can't for the life of me figure out what happened.
 
timothy said:
I just this minute read a review on the Oxo 9 cup ( (y) ) and see you can get a 12 cup.
www.yahoo.com

Oxo's 9 cup coffee maker is the most user-friendly machine I've ever tested

It doesn't get simpler than the one-button control on this sleek appliance. It's the best drip coffee maker we tested!
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
Look forward to your reviews.
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I have a 9 cup, but it's just a bit "unwieldly" to use. My hope is the 12 cup, because of it's design and shape will fit my kitchen a little better due to it's top/front mounted control panel with water fill oriented to the back. So the machine is presenting "narrow" side forward. Which then would allow me to make a more "coffee centric" portion of my counter lining up my grinder, one of the espresso makers and the drip maker all in a row. We'll see.
But it still puzzles me why this machine with no explanation is suddenly not fully brewing the bed of coffee. I've not changed anything. Using same beans, same grinder (even tried cleaning the grinder), same amount of grounds by weight per unit of water.
It's just totally puzzling me. I can "mimic" getting the full bodied brew I had before by overloading the filter basket (instead of 68-70 grams to 40oz) going up to more like 75-77 grams. But then because I am using the cone filter(s) coffee grounds tend to travel up the sides and over flow at times putting grounds down into the carafe. It tastes better but it ain't working right.
Maybe I'll email Breville and see what they have to say beside the standard "canned" advise. Seems like all the mfgrs of whatever appliance or device all start out like you're stupid. Then you have to wade through layer after layer to finally find something
 
Have you tried tamping the grounds in the basket before brewing? I still use my MR. Coffee and it has a similar issue. If I do not tamp just one spot gets wet as the water drips right through. By packing the grinds the water runs over the top and the whole basket gets wet. I now start the machine and stir the grounds until all soupy then stop it to let it bloom, then start up the machine again. Way better coffee...Just like a pour over as the grounds are soaking in water.
 
I guess I can give it a go. But it's weird because, it just started doing this. I've not moved it, placed it differently, or anything. I noticed one day it just did not taste right. I actually thought I'd measured wrong. It tasted and smelled just "off". So badly I poured out the entire pot. Then I saw only 2/3 the grounds saturated. So, I tried again only this time I used about 15% more coffee. It was a tad better. But was still "off" it's "goodness".
Since first noticing I've experimented finer/coarser, more, less, Gold setting, My Brew adjustments to temp setting, bloom time, rate of flow.
I'm striking out and I'm frustrated. So frustrated it's why I ordered the OXO. It's got a larger brew head that covers the entire bed and mimics pour over. My 9 cup OXO does this as well. But, the physical design is a bit of a PIA. The new machine should arrive tomorrow sometime so I may give it a whirl on Thursday morning. If so I'll report. No later than Friday anyway. If I actually even open it. I'll see if Breville comes back to me with advice as well. I sent them an email asking about it
 
Calcium buildup somewhere in the water line impeding flow? I run distilled vinegar through my coffee pot every few months to keep it flowing. Forgive me if you did this already.
 
Steve Hoch said:
Calcium buildup somewhere in the water line impeding flow? I run distilled vinegar through my coffee pot every few months to keep it flowing. Forgive me if you did this already.
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I use a recommended product called DeScalz or something like that. It's a powder mixed with 32 oz warm water then run through the machine. I know vinegar works but then the smell lingers around the house. Most mfgrs recommend the product I buy.
And yep, I tried that twice. Honestly I'm just a bit frustrated. Also I use highly filtered water though not softened. So, it does have TDS just so that it's not "flat" tasting. It's the water I now use for making my sparkling water, that we drink and so on. It's a really nice (not cheap) filtration system made by the Premier/Watts Co.
I still have my RO system but it's not hooked up since, everything I read from the mfgr of every coffee maker of every type I own(ed) says to not use RO or distilled as it can damage the heating system and leach that metal into the brew. Who knew? This was a relatively new discovery to me. And I changed the system over. When we had the old fridge I kept the RO but only to make ice. This new Samsung fridge does not have the ability to run separate water lines and supplies to the water and ice units respectively. If it did that is one change I would gladly make. Hate the cloudy ice
 
LMichaels said:
I use a recommended product called DeScalz or something like that. It's a powder mixed with 32 oz warm water then run through the machine. I know vinegar works but then the smell lingers around the house. Most mfgrs recommend the product I buy.
And yep, I tried that twice. Honestly I'm just a bit frustrated. Also I use highly filtered water though not softened. So, it does have TDS just so that it's not "flat" tasting. It's the water I now use for making my sparkling water, that we drink and so on. It's a really nice (not cheap) filtration system made by the Premier/Watts Co.
I still have my RO system but it's not hooked up since, everything I read from the mfgr of every coffee maker of every type I own(ed) says to not use RO or distilled as it can damage the heating system and leach that metal into the brew. Who knew? This was a relatively new discovery to me. And I changed the system over. When we had the old fridge I kept the RO but only to make ice. This new Samsung fridge does not have the ability to run separate water lines and supplies to the water and ice units respectively. If it did that is one change I would gladly make. Hate the cloudy ice
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I have to call BS on using RO water in coffee makers and the opinions are all over the place on this but I would say 2 to 1 for RO.
1 My coffee tastes way better with RO water
2 The PH of our RO water is about 7.4 - Just slightly basic
3 Never had a problem in 30 years with coffee maker metal parts failing
4 Never have to descale the coffee maker
5 The water going through the coffee machine is only about 10 minutes a day which is a very short time.
6 Coffee manufactures have a good reason to have your coffee maker eventually fail after some time from mineral buildup (most people don't demineralize their coffee makers and just buy new ones). I see them at the thrift stores all the time.
7 The purest water will extract the most TDS from the coffee.
8 I think most coffee shops use RO water to prolong the life and maintenance of their equipment and consistency of their coffee.
 
So I have this exact same coffee maker and the exact same issue. I've noticed some interesting things:

1. On weekdays, I typically grind the night before and set a timer. The grounds are always fully wetted when the coffee is ready in the morning.
2. On weekends, I grind and brew within a couple minutes. This is when I see a pocket of dry grounds, always on one side, about 3/8" thick.

Based on the above, I have to assume it's an off-gassing "bloom" type issue. I know you said you messed with those settings (and I did too), I bet the secret sauce is in there somewhere.

I don't recall which side is dry vs. wet, but I wonder if the slope on the counter has anything to do with it.
 
GreggP said:
So I have this exact same coffee maker and the exact same issue. I've noticed some interesting things:

1. On weekdays, I typically grind the night before and set a timer. The grounds are always fully wetted when the coffee is ready in the morning.
2. On weekends, I grind and brew within a couple minutes. This is when I see a pocket of dry grounds, always on one side, about 3/8" thick.

Based on the above, I have to assume it's an off-gassing "bloom" type issue. I know you said you messed with those settings (and I did too), I bet the secret sauce is in there somewhere.

I don't recall which side is dry vs. wet, but I wonder if the slope on the counter has anything to do with it.
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For me it's always on the same side as the control panel. I rarely do night ahead setup, so sadly I did not check last 2 times. Friday or Saturday I will try the OXO.
 
Well I experimented this AM with the "My Brew" settings on the Precision Brew. Below is my report on how things went with the new Metropolis coffee I bought at Costco. Oddly my Costco carries the medium roast and Sam's the dark roast. Anyway here is the report on the beans and on the machine

So, the first batch? MEH, weak, insipid, sort of "sour". But later on I made espresso with the batch of these beans and it was REALLY good. I think if it it makes a good espresso, but not a good drip pot than the fault is with the drip machine.
So this AM I made some changes (again noting the issues I posted about re the "problem" the Precision Brew has developed). So, this AM I switched it over to "My Brew", and made changes there. I increased bloom time from 40 sec to a full minute, increased brew temp to 205, decreased flow rate from med to slow, SLIGHTLY increased amount of coffee in the bed as well by about 4 grams.
Well BIG changes. Much richer brew, smoother, not sour or "insipid", and bed was fully and evenly saturated.
Now does it mean the Precision Brew is "fixed"? No, not by a long shot. Because it still does not explain why it suddenly "changed" on the old setting of My Brew or "Gold" from consistently turning out GREAT brew to suddenly deciding to not saturate the beans correctly and brewing weak, sour batches of coffee.
So, yes, I found a "workaround" it's not answering the question of "What Happened Here?"
 
This is really great to know - I'm not using the coffee pot for a bit as my wife is out of town (when it's just me, I use the Aeropress) but I will try the same the next time the situation is the same.

I believe "Gold" and most of the default settings are designed to comply with the SCA's Certified Home Brewer program. It doesn't mean it's the best for a 60oz brewer with a smallish sprayhead.
 
Do you have hard water?
I do, I’m on a well.
Our water tastes nice but I still have to service a few things like my shower heads and items like that with vinegar and or CLR.
When I do this service work just soaking isn’t good enough I have to brush scrub several times to get back to the flow I like.
This service can take a whole day of soaking scrubbing and changing solutions.
I notice a reduction of pressure /flow in my water pick as well.
I just get a new one once or twice a year instead of messing with that one.
 
We have VERY hard water. I use a combo whole house water softener and filtration system, though I bypass that to get to my high end drinking system because I want the good stuff without any possibility of VOCs, lead, parasites and additive type chemicals i.e. chlorine, fluoride and what have you. So I run a very high end multi stage carbon block multi stage filtration system for "consumption" water. Outstanding taste.
But, on the coffee maker I did do a flush on it with no improvement at all in the coffee.
It's just like one day, it quit saturating evenly and I changed nothing it the settings, the water, the coffee, the grind level, etc.
This is what is bugging the daylights outta me. One day everything was fine next day I was dumpling a whole pot because it was weak and sour and not extracted well.
Yes I "worked around" it a bit this AM BUT, who's to say if this will last or if it happened to be a "one and done" type of thing.
 
Well the new machine is here. Got a great deal on it (less than half price from Amazon). Had been opened and refused/sent back because there are 2 VERY VERY tiny little marks in the stainless top band. Literally only 2-3mm around and barely even visible. To where you have to know they're there and actually LOOK for them like crazy.
Interesting machine too. It can do podless single cup up to 12 cups. Has an interesting way of handling the brewing function. Water goes into a glass "tank". Then the heating element rings the water up to just shy of a boil. Then a VERY quiet pump turns on and pumps the water up and across into a very large shower head that covers nearly the entire basket holding the commercial size filters.
It's sort of weird to watch. As it has to wait for water to get plenty hot. Then it pumps it right through. Can't wait to give it a try with coffee
I like the control panel is higher up, works from the front not the side. I can load the machine with water and coffee without moving it :D That alone is fantastic! And I am able to place the KA espresso machine next to it. So I have my main grinder, espresso maker and this all in a row

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Well I've been using this machine a few days now. I do miss a couple things on the Breville compared to this. But, one thing this does better than anything except it's "sibling" machine (currently in the basement hibernating) (my OXO Brew 9 cup). And quite honestly if that machine was not such a PIA to use, it would be sitting on the counter rather than this monster.
So in terms of ease of use, I'd rate this barely in first (only because of how the machine is oriented and not needing to be moved in and out), The Breville #2 because other than having to move it out from under the cabinet to fill with water, it has a slide out basket though because of how versatile it is it has a somewhat complicated "set up" and control system. Though TBH until the uneven saturation issue came up, I simply left it on "Gold" and hit "Brew". And the OXO 9 cup 3rd because of it's convoluted way to remove the brew basket and fill with water, and difficulty cleaning.
I'm still learning the best grinder setting, for this one, though another thing I am struggling with is I'm not exactly enjoying this Metropolis Granville coffee. Just seems a bit "insipid" no matter how I brew it. (espresso or drip).
But one thing is for sure with a brew head the size of this machine's getting the bed saturated is definitely NOT an issue. Though the same holds up with the 9 cup. A very large brew head vs basket size so it showers plenty of nice even coverage vs the Breville which seems to (like a Moccamaster) rely on "force" to agitate and saturate rather than just good coverage.
Have to go to Costco tomorrow so I may grab a bag of House Blend or maybe even PEET's since the Metropolis just doesn't taste like it has any "muscle" to me. Both of which I think will make a very nice brew in this new OXO
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Well, I did write to Breville (since it is a new machine). They instructed me 2 things. One, to check if the brew head is "sealed" correctly with the retaining ring which screws on to hold it in place. They're also sending me a 12oz complimentary bag of freshly custom roasted coffee beans to try as well to make sure it's not "stale" beans throwing things off. So, I think I will drag it up out of the basement and double check that the brew head/sealing ring is all seated correctly perhaps for tomorrow's or morning brews this weekend.
I really would like to find what set this issue off. I REALLY like the Breville. Also appreciate the flavor profile, a cone filter basket develops over a basket type.
I think OXO sort of missed the mark on this 12 cup unit making a large commercial basket filter do all the "lifting" over 4 cup batch sizes. So from 2 to 4 cups (10oz to 20oz) batch, they have a very small #2 cone brew basket. IMO using the large flat bottom basket for anything over 20oz does not make for enough "depth" of the bed for the coffee to fully extract through. They should have done what Breville did. Using the large basket only over 40oz batches.
I think this is why on the OXO, I am finding the only way I am getting a good tasting brew is to go WAY over on the amount of coffee used to water ratio. Using 72-74 grams ground on the finest setting of "drip" style. Rather than 64-65 ground a little more middle to coarser.
Anyway I will report back my findings :D
 
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