Way too much charcoal flavor - help!


 
C

Craig Strand

New member
Just picked up a slightly used WSM on craigslist. Tried it out this weekend on some back ribs. Still learning because I am new to smoking. Used the minion method on the coals. 3 chunks cherry and one hickory.

Had 2 disappointments:
1. Tasted way too much like charcoal.
2. Tasted way too little smoke!

Could use a bit of help from you vets. Thanks!
 
Craig,

Welcome to the forum! A few questions:

1. What kind of charcoal did you use?
2. How did you light the charcoal?
3. Was the top vent open, closed, somewhere in between?
4. I assume you have enough grilling/smoking experience to know that the flavor you were getting was from the charcoal, and not the wood?

I only ask #4 because the charcoal itself actually imparts very little flavor. That's why we add the wood.
 
I am new at smoking, but not grilling. I used regular kingsford. Filled the ring almost full, started 20 briquettes in the can with newspaper under them, and when ready put them on top. Then added the wood. Top vent was open almost all of the time unless I needed to cool it down. I was surprised at how small a change in the vents made a big change in the temperature!

As far as charcoal flavor, I feel I know the difference. I also noticed that only about 2 of the wood chunks burned because the charcoal burn stayed more in the middle and missed the wood. Still learning there...
 
First off, I would use more hickory then cherry.
All fruit woods are to mild for ribs. Try three chunks hickory and only one of cherry. IF you use any fruit wood at all. Save it for birds..
Second, let your fire burn a bit before you close the unit up. To get the temp you want, it is easier to catch it on the way up. add the hot coals, let it burn a bit, add the rest of the smoker, the meat, and the lid. As the unit comes up to 200-210 close all the BOTTOM vents. Always keep the top open. I start my time when the unit is at temp.
BUT I don't finish Ribs at temp. You pull the ribs only when they are done. Don't worry about time on the grill, or temp of the meat. When they pull apart they are done!
 
Craig,

Try to keep your top vent 100% open at all times. You need to let the smoke escape easily. If you don't, you run the risk of creosote forming on the meat, which is a bitter, overly smoky taste. Perhaps that is what you tasted? Control the temp with the bottom vents.

Some people say they can taste the Kingsford when using the Minion method. I don't know, since I don't use Kingsford, but it's a point of controversy around here.

One other possibility I can think of, since it's used.... The creosote I referred to earlier can build up inside the smoker as well. Even though we all like to build up a little gunk on the inside, since you don't know how the smoker was treated previosuly, you might give it a through cleaning on the inside and start over.
 
One of the problems folks have when using the MM is that they are too quick to add meat to the cooker after adding the lit charcoal to the unlit supply. I think it best to let the lit fuel fully engage with the unlit fuel before adding the meat. This could take as much as 15-30 minutes but, in my opinion, worth the wait.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vincent Carrocci:
One of the problems folks have when using the MM is that they are too quick to add meat to the cooker after adding the lit charcoal to the unlit supply. I think it best to let the lit fuel fully engage with the unlit fuel before adding the meat. This could take as much as 15-30 minutes but, in my opinion, worth the wait. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and that's one more reason I like lighting with a propane weedburning torch.

Not only do you not have to wait on briqs in a chimney, but since the torch is heating the whole ring up at once (but lighting only the top briqs), the burn is very quick to clean up after reassembling the cooker. It's sort of the same principle as laying splits on a firebox to heat up before adding. If you don't, they'll smolder at first, unlike the near instant ignition if they're already hot when you add them to the fire.
 
I would let the smoker get to within 15 degrees of your target then throw the meat on cold. I like to use a lot of wood 7-8 chunks on top.
 
I disagree with the "charcoal taste" crowd. The charcoal is the same on the outside as it is on the inside so as long as it is burning and producing heat, it's the same product, the taste shouldn't be any different. I would attribute any off taste to that top vent not being open all the way all the time.
 
I stopped using Kingsford just for this very reason.

When lighting it off I would get clouds of stinking black smoke that would eventually go away. My thought was that getting the unlit in the cooker going would produce the same thing getting it all over the meat. Yuck.

I was able to cut down on it a little bit by letting the cooker 'settle' a while before putting the meat in. The thought there was that the unlit would warm up so that when it actually lit it would produce less of that black death.

Ultimately I switched to lump which produces far less of that smog.

Russ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Russ Sylvester:
I stopped using Kingsford just for this very reason.

When lighting it off I would get clouds of stinking black smoke that would eventually go away. My thought was that getting the unlit in the cooker going would produce the same thing getting it all over the meat. Yuck.

I was able to cut down on it a little bit by letting the cooker 'settle' a while before putting the meat in. The thought there was that the unlit would warm up so that when it actually lit it would produce less of that black death.

Ultimately I switched to lump which produces far less of that smog.

Russ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Russ, I hear ya, but I detect very little K charcoal smoke flavor from the wsm lighting the top with the MM.

However, I really noticed what must've been K flavor on my Dougherty wings recently, which was a heaping chimney of fresh Kbb that I lit with the torch. I say that because I didn't use any wood. However, the taste didn't translate to the black smog and smell you get when the K is burning nasty. All the wings got ate and everyone loved 'em.

If I use leftover K in the kettle though, I won't get that flavor. Someone said the briqs are the same on the inside as the outside, but I don't see how. They don't smoke in the chimney anything like fresh K does.
icon_confused.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Carlson:
I disagree with the "charcoal taste" crowd. The charcoal is the same on the outside as it is on the inside so as long as it is burning and producing heat, it's the same product, the taste shouldn't be any different. I would attribute any off taste to that top vent not being open all the way all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This.

I only use Kingsford. I have never exerienced any charcoal or off flavors.

I ready my coals in a chimney and put them on top of a packed ring. I put three or four chunks of wood in the packed ring and throw a handful of chips on top. I ALWAYS put the meat on right after I put the hot coals on; I NEVER wait for the smoker to come up to temp first. Seems like a waste of time to me for the very reason John mentioned here - you're not burning anything off.

Leave your top vent open. Stabalize your temps with the bottom vents.
 
I, too, suspect that the top vent not being 100% open at all times would be the culprit. I use Kingsford and add my meat after dumping on the hot coals and assembling the smoker. I've never had a problem with a charcoal taste.
 
All great advice!!
If your lid is 100% open and you let the pit come up to temp and stabilize. Don't rush the food on as soon as the target temp is reached. Let it run there for a while. Watch the amount of wood you use. These units are extremely efficient and don't need much wood. I am using only -2- to -3- chunks tops at the start of the cook and that is it. I would cut back with the hickory and go 50/50 with hickory along with either apple or cherry.
See how that works for ya, then you can either go with more hickory or more fruit wood.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Carlson:
I disagree with the "charcoal taste" crowd. The charcoal is the same on the outside as it is on the inside so as long as it is burning and producing heat, it's the same product, the taste shouldn't be any different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The original OP's issue aside, are we really all so sure that K is the same "on the outside as it is on the inside"? Save some leftover K that were all ashed over. Put those briqs in one chimney and fresh K in another. If you light and smell, I'm pretty sure you'll notice a difference, if memory serves.

Like I said though, I have ALWAYS thought you didn't get any significant flavor, from ANY kind of charcoal until doing a HH minion burn with fresh K in my OTG the other day. As to the degree of flavor (and to reiiterate, not BAD!), the wings of said cook had more smoke flavor than the jerk chicken I cooked in the kettle just yesterday that were smoked with two foiled packets of applewood/allspice berries, leftover briqs for fuel.

Anyway, the kettle is just a different smoking environment than the wsm, but closing the top lid of the wsm should definately serve to concentrate any smoke flavor. I'm just saying that I now am not so quick to dismiss any posters claims of "too much charcoal flavor". Don't forget that water in the pan will "wash" the smoke flavor out to some degree as well.

Different burn methods, fuels, and cookers will all have some different results, but folks have different tastes as well.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Carlson:
I disagree with the "charcoal taste" crowd. The charcoal is the same on the outside as it is on the inside so as long as it is burning and producing heat, it's the same product, the taste shouldn't be any different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The original OP's issue aside, are we really all so sure that K is the same "on the outside as it is on the inside"? Save some leftover K that were all ashed over. Put those briqs in one chimney and fresh K in another. If you light and smell, I'm pretty sure you'll notice a difference, if memory serves.

Like I said though, I have ALWAYS thought you didn't get any significant flavor, from ANY kind of charcoal until doing a HH minion burn with fresh K in my OTG the other day. As to the degree of flavor (and to reiiterate, not BAD!), the wings of said cook had more smoke flavor than the jerk chicken I cooked in the kettle just yesterday that were smoked with two foiled packets of applewood/allspice berries, leftover briqs for fuel.

Anyway, the kettle is just a different smoking environment than the wsm, but closing the top lid of the wsm should definately serve to concentrate any smoke flavor. I'm just saying that I now am not so quick to dismiss any posters claims of "too much charcoal flavor". Don't forget that water in the pan will "wash" the smoke flavor out to some degree as well.

Different burn methods, fuels, and cookers will all have some different results, but folks have different tastes as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dave, I think the difference there would be that the pre-burnt coals are altered from having been previously burnt. Does that make them "better," I don't know.

I'm not going to definitively say that K can't impart any noticeable flavors, there are certainly folks here who believe this to be true. I'm just saying that it hasn't been my experience. And, as that goes, your mileage may vary.
 
I use whatever charcoal is on sale and have never had any problem with any of them, lump is ok but inconsistent. I use fresh and previously burnt in any combination (I don't throw coals away). If you read the ingredient list for Kingsford, there is nothing in it that isn't natural so I don't get it. If anyone is familiar with Charlie Vergos Rendezvous in Memphis, those are cooked exclusively over charcoal and seem to be a hit.
 
I'm no chemist, but it seems to me that the charcoal changes as it gets hotter. I think it produces more particulates (thus more flavors- good or bad) the cooler the fire. A high heat sear with the coals white hot seems not to have as much charcoal smell as a low 225 degree burn. But maybe it's just me.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John Carlson:
I use whatever charcoal is on sale and have never had any problem with any of them, lump is ok but inconsistent. I use fresh and previously burnt in any combination (I don't throw coals away). If you read the ingredient list for Kingsford, there is nothing in it that isn't natural so I don't get it. If anyone is familiar with Charlie Vergos Rendezvous in Memphis, those are cooked exclusively over charcoal and seem to be a hit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree completely with the first part. While I've lately (finally) noticed "charcoal" flavor, it hasn't been a bad thing.

As for the K ingredients, I was under the impression that the "recipe" wasn't public information and didn't know that the ingredients were specifically listed on the bag. As to Vergos, I believe S. Raichlen wrote that they cooked their back ribs over Royal oak.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Matt Sanders:
I'm no chemist, but it seems to me that the charcoal changes as it gets hotter. I think it produces more particulates (thus more flavors- good or bad) the cooler the fire. A high heat sear with the coals white hot seems not to have as much charcoal smell as a low 225 degree burn. But maybe it's just me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Matt, it's not just you. I think it's not necessarily the temp of the fire though. Basically, the cleaner the briquettes are burning, the cleaner the smoke.
 
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