Newbie here. I received my WSM 3 weeks ago. Made a few mod's like putting on a temp gage and I'm doing the clay pot base mod instead of water. Does anyone think that the water pan really helps keep the food moist or is it strictly for the indirect cooking purpose. I saw Alton Brown smoke something and he made a good point that water or moisture in the air will actually block smoke from getting into the food. After thinking about it I kind of agree with that. Thoughts from the pro's on this board?
Water VS Clay pot mod
- Thread starter GregS
- Start date
I dunno, I never noticed a difference in smoke flavor whether I was using water, sand, or the clay pot base.
What I have noticed is a real difference in the amount of cleanup effort.
Unfortunately, a few days ago I had to face one significant weakness of the clay pot base -- I dropped it on the concrete.
What I have noticed is a real difference in the amount of cleanup effort.
Unfortunately, a few days ago I had to face one significant weakness of the clay pot base -- I dropped it on the concrete.
Todd Randall
TVWBB Pro
I ain't no pro either, but my opinion (which comes from reading post after post on this board) is that liquid in the pan does not help keep food moist or flavor food whatsoever. It's only there as a heat sink only, to keep temperatures most stable and less fluctuation and easier to control. I.e. you won't even notice a flair up / temp spike with water in the pan.
On the point about it blocking smoke from getting into the food, mmmm, that's a new one to me, but I never noticed a difference when I used to use water vs. now using the clay base.
That's a bummer Kevin about breaking yours, but at least they are cheap and easy to find locally.
Todd
On the point about it blocking smoke from getting into the food, mmmm, that's a new one to me, but I never noticed a difference when I used to use water vs. now using the clay base.
That's a bummer Kevin about breaking yours, but at least they are cheap and easy to find locally.
Todd
Bryan Rice
TVWBB Super Fan
In competition, I prefer to use water in the pan, but not for "moisture" reasons. I do it for appearance reasons - mostly to increase my smoke ring. I start my guru-enabled cook with ice in the water pan so that the process of ice turning into water vapor will consume a lot of calories. More calories consumed makes the guru stoke the fire hotter (in order to maintain temp) making the smoke wood burn not smolder. Burning wood produces more Nitrogen than smoldering wood, therefore I think produces more nitrogen dioxide. As we all know by now, to get the smoke ring we need that nitrogen dioxide to adhere and be dissolved into the surface of the meat. Since NO2 is water-soluble, I think having moisture on the surface of the meat INCREASES its ability to form the smoke ring. Having water vapor in the air helps keep the surface of the meat moister for longer allowing maximum time for NO2 to dissolve into the meat. (As long as temp is below 140.)
Alternately, I think that is why you see such huge smoke rings on Kevin Kruger's (and other's) hi-temp briskets because he generally uses pastes which keep the surface of the meat really moist for longer while the wood is burning very hot (not smoldering) from doing a hi-temp cook.
Anyway, same principle but would probably work just as well with the clay pot and rub paste.
When I am at home and don't care about a smoke ring, I still use the water pan, but don't do the ice thing. I don't spend too much time worrying about refilling it if I am using a guru.
Alternately, I think that is why you see such huge smoke rings on Kevin Kruger's (and other's) hi-temp briskets because he generally uses pastes which keep the surface of the meat really moist for longer while the wood is burning very hot (not smoldering) from doing a hi-temp cook.
Anyway, same principle but would probably work just as well with the clay pot and rub paste.
When I am at home and don't care about a smoke ring, I still use the water pan, but don't do the ice thing. I don't spend too much time worrying about refilling it if I am using a guru.
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Alternately, I think that is why you see such huge smoke rings on Kevin Kruger's (and other's) hi-temp briskets because he generally uses pastes which keep the surface of the meat really moist for longer while the wood is burning very hot (not smoldering) from doing a hi-temp cook. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can anybody confirm this?
Can anybody confirm this?
Scott T (Odirom)
TVWBB Fan
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As we all know by now, to get the smoke ring we need that nitrogen dioxide to adhere and be dissolved into the surface of the meat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We do?
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this.
Alternately, I am not sure if my future holds strapping the NOX tank from the top fuel dragsters to my WSM. I mean I guess I could have meats that were 90% smoke ring, and also have a WSM that can go from 0 to 600 in 3.2 seconds.
So, the meat is going to the dentist to get gassed and I will put flames on the side of my WSM--well, as soon as I read some more.
(The previous was intended as fun, and not a poke at anyone. I have just never heard NO or NO2 brouhgt up in conjunction with smoke ring before....Thanks!)
We do?
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this.
Alternately, I am not sure if my future holds strapping the NOX tank from the top fuel dragsters to my WSM. I mean I guess I could have meats that were 90% smoke ring, and also have a WSM that can go from 0 to 600 in 3.2 seconds.
So, the meat is going to the dentist to get gassed and I will put flames on the side of my WSM--well, as soon as I read some more.
(The previous was intended as fun, and not a poke at anyone. I have just never heard NO or NO2 brouhgt up in conjunction with smoke ring before....Thanks!)
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We do?
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
there's some info here, as well as an informative link in K Kruger's last reply.
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1780069052/m/6030090165
btw, nitrites are what make ham pink.
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
there's some info here, as well as an informative link in K Kruger's last reply.
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1780069052/m/6030090165
btw, nitrites are what make ham pink.
doug gillis
TVWBB Fan
never yet tried the clay pot mod- have always used water and was never dissapointed although might try clay pot mod to see if it does wonders. In using the water pan- we aren't "boiling" the meat- just adding some steam and although the water pan acts as a heat sink- I'd tend to think that the light steam does indeed add a small percentile of moisture- if not then why spraymist a boston butt w/ apple juice or something else here? "Boiling" and "Steam" are two totally different things! Being honest here, All the pics I've seen of pulled pork all look closely the same- taste, I can't answer. Whether you use a water pan,clay pot, the wsm should give nice results. I myself haven't a problem using a water pan as I somewhat like a moisture smoke. I think the wsm doesn't really need mods in order to produce excellent Q- It does very well right out of the box- that's why we paid 200 bucks for it over the cheaper 5o-75 dollar models! All needed besides the unit is a chimney starter,good smoke-wood chunks,charcoal,decent thermometers,and if a beer drinker- lots since it takes some time as it differs from grilling!
Todd Randall
TVWBB Pro
I don't believe that most clay pot users (I'm now an addict myself
) believe that it enhances or helps better their end product.
For most, I think it is simply a tool, with the major benefits being:
1. it still acts as a half-way decent heat sink to help stabilize temps
2. that is cuts fuel consumption, saving money, and increasing cooking times without needing to reload
3. that it makes cleanup faster and easier.
Todd
For most, I think it is simply a tool, with the major benefits being:
1. it still acts as a half-way decent heat sink to help stabilize temps
2. that is cuts fuel consumption, saving money, and increasing cooking times without needing to reload
3. that it makes cleanup faster and easier.
Todd
With my limited Q experience I can only say that I chose to use the clay pot for 3 LOGICAL reasons.
1) Putting a liquid in a smoker that can only reach 212 F when i'm trying to cook at 225-250 just doesn't make sense unless there is a GOOD reason to do so. A heavy 14" clay base will evenly spread the heat but won't require nearly as much energy to hold that temperature. So that only leaves us with the debate over whether the water vapor does ANYTHING... and that's never going to be settled!!
2) Water pan requires a lot more tending as you have to ensure it doesn't run out and also make sure you warm your water first before topping up or you can send your temps downward.
3) Clean up is about a million times easier if all i have to do is wait until the following day and pull off the layer of foil and hardened fat. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but the less clean up the better!!
1) Putting a liquid in a smoker that can only reach 212 F when i'm trying to cook at 225-250 just doesn't make sense unless there is a GOOD reason to do so. A heavy 14" clay base will evenly spread the heat but won't require nearly as much energy to hold that temperature. So that only leaves us with the debate over whether the water vapor does ANYTHING... and that's never going to be settled!!
2) Water pan requires a lot more tending as you have to ensure it doesn't run out and also make sure you warm your water first before topping up or you can send your temps downward.
3) Clean up is about a million times easier if all i have to do is wait until the following day and pull off the layer of foil and hardened fat. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but the less clean up the better!!
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
I found the clay pot I bought fits perfectly inside my water pan. I foiled them together, thinking the dome shape would help deflect heat and the air pocket would create extra insulation. I tried it out on a high heat cook so I can't really gauge it effectiveness.
The thing I did like was that it seemed to fit in the wsm brackets a tad tighter. I felt like the clay pot was a little loose. this gives it a couple extra mm's of diameter and an edge contour appropriate for mating with the brackets.
anybody else do this?
The thing I did like was that it seemed to fit in the wsm brackets a tad tighter. I felt like the clay pot was a little loose. this gives it a couple extra mm's of diameter and an edge contour appropriate for mating with the brackets.
anybody else do this?
Todd Randall
TVWBB Pro
jb, that's exactly what I do. The 14" fits perfect inside the stock water pan. I foil the whole thing as one piece, same as you. Works great that way. I just need to get myself some of the extra wide foil so I can foil the top in one piece. Currently need to use 2 and greese slips between and gathers in the pot, no biggie though, just a bit of extra wipe down at the end or the next day (or the next week, lol).
I also at the time, bought the 12", and that one fits perfect inside the brinkmann pan. But, I see no reason to use it over the 14", unless somebody mistakenly bought the 12" and had a brinkmann pan, then that could work for them as well.
Todd
I also at the time, bought the 12", and that one fits perfect inside the brinkmann pan. But, I see no reason to use it over the 14", unless somebody mistakenly bought the 12" and had a brinkmann pan, then that could work for them as well.
Todd
j biesinger
TVWBB Platinum Member
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I just need to get myself some of the extra wide foil </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
can't live without it. so many uses, I keep it in the basement so my wife wont use it to reheat pizza.
can't live without it. so many uses, I keep it in the basement so my wife wont use it to reheat pizza.
dsitterson
TVWBB Super Fan
I have always used the pan with water or the pan with no water. Clean up is a little messy. I am not a clean freak so I just hit with som soap and the hose. The pan could use replacing after 3 years. I might enter it in the dirtiest pan contest. After reading this I might need to go with a clay pot just for ease of cleaning.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Todd Randall:
I foil the whole thing as one piece, same as you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do this too, now.
First smoke with the 14" saucer I foiled the pan and saucer separately. Didn't realize some of the drippings had gotten over the edge of the saucer and into the bottom of the pan. Cleaning up the next day I managed to spill a good amount of black pork grease all over myself and the ground. It was all cooled off of course, but lets just say I was glad no kids were within ear-shot.
For my second and all following cooks, I put the saucer in the pan and foil it all together.
I foil the whole thing as one piece, same as you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I do this too, now.
First smoke with the 14" saucer I foiled the pan and saucer separately. Didn't realize some of the drippings had gotten over the edge of the saucer and into the bottom of the pan. Cleaning up the next day I managed to spill a good amount of black pork grease all over myself and the ground. It was all cooled off of course, but lets just say I was glad no kids were within ear-shot.
For my second and all following cooks, I put the saucer in the pan and foil it all together.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scott T (Odirom):
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As we all know by now, to get the smoke ring we need that nitrogen dioxide to adhere and be dissolved into the surface of the meat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We do?
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this.
Alternately, I am not sure if my future holds strapping the NOX tank from the top fuel dragsters to my WSM. I mean I guess I could have meats that were 90% smoke ring, and also have a WSM that can go from 0 to 600 in 3.2 seconds.
So, the meat is going to the dentist to get gassed and I will put flames on the side of my WSM--well, as soon as I read some more.
(The previous was intended as fun, and not a poke at anyone. I have just never heard NO or NO2 brouhgt up in conjunction with smoke ring before....Thanks!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think your confusing N2O and NO2
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As we all know by now, to get the smoke ring we need that nitrogen dioxide to adhere and be dissolved into the surface of the meat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We do?
I had never heard of this. I would love to hear more about the science behind this.
Alternately, I am not sure if my future holds strapping the NOX tank from the top fuel dragsters to my WSM. I mean I guess I could have meats that were 90% smoke ring, and also have a WSM that can go from 0 to 600 in 3.2 seconds.
So, the meat is going to the dentist to get gassed and I will put flames on the side of my WSM--well, as soon as I read some more.
(The previous was intended as fun, and not a poke at anyone. I have just never heard NO or NO2 brouhgt up in conjunction with smoke ring before....Thanks!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think your confusing N2O and NO2