water pan question to ponder


 
Jeff R

Jeff R

TVWBB Pro
Ok, I've seen every argument regarding water pans. I am in the camp of believing the sole purpose is to be a heat sink and help with low and slow by helping to keep the temp fluctuation curve flatter.

So my question is why you think mfg's put waterpans in electric and propane smokers. You can regulate temps pretty quick with either.
 
I am in the camp that says a water pan is for water to cook in a moist environment.
I know lots of people here don't, but I guess I always will. After all, it is called a water pan.
Old habits and all...
 
Jeff, I like to stress actual cooking experience and observation and not get TOO wrapped up in the "why's" and technical stuff. What matters is what works for each of us, assuming we actually try different techniques and let our eyes and tastebuds be the judge.

For instance, what matters to me is that last Friday night, I cooked some of the best spares I've ever smoked. Now I'd like to believe that adding humidity to the cooker slowed evaporation and helped retain moisture, or at least helped keep the bark from getting hard. (I've cooked ribs a lot WITH water AND withOUT.)

Bottom line though is that they were about as good as ANY I've ever done, and ALMOST as tender as my best foiled ribs. Positive observations of this cook only confirm the idea that I've had for a while now. Basically, it's that the only times I don't want to use water in the pan are if I want to cook over 250* or plan on foiling during the cook.

Just to keep things in perspective though, my first two rules for wsm ribs are far more important than the last two:
Cook til tender but DON'T OVERCOOK.
Keep the ends of the slabs out of the hot zone, and arrange meat or move meat if needed to cook as evenly as possible.
Simmer water in the pan targeting 250* or foil.
Don't bother spritzing with AJ unless wrapping in foil. (I put some sugar in my rub.)
 
Dave, my intent was not to start a which is better challenge. I was just wondering what others thought the elec and gas mfg philosophy was. Since those don't need a heat sink due to other controls available, do they believe it is for moisture and better bbq, is it for competitive marketing, or some other reason.

What got me thinking about this is because before I found this site and varied opinions, I cooked in my fathers electric.smoker that seals tight and did not get the bark I expected. Having slow cooked in a kettle with.out water further supports the idea of it being a heat sink, and back to the question of what the mfg intent is.

But I guess like anything else, the mfg's market to.the masses and the purest use their knowledge to work around.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff R:
Dave, my intent was not to start a which is better challenge...What got me thinking about this is because before I found this site and varied opinions, I cooked in my fathers electric.smoker that seals tight and did not get the bark I expected. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff, wasn't trying to debate or "challenge." That's EXACTLY what I'm "against", in a way at least. My point is that I wish more folks would just try different things and let THEIR meat speak for itself. Not so convinced folks here on these boards always do so when I keep reading where they BRAG they've never even tried water in the pan, though. That's all I'm saying.

Observation: When I smoke chicken it's a bit moister if I use water. If I don't use water though I can cook faster and get better skin. Have you done both and observed this for yourself?

Anyway, why do you think you didn't get the bark you'd expect in your dad's electric smoker? I'd say a good part of it was because there wasn't ENOUGH evaporation before the meat was done, right? Sort of like the times I was planning on foiling ribs or brisket but the bark was so slow in forming. Well, I was using water in the pan. Have you ever noticed that? You probably know that Harry Soo is such a fan of foiling, and doesn't like to use water in the pan. He says he gets better bark without it. Well yeah....if you're foiling ribs, I totally get that. If not foiling though, just cook at 250*, not 225*, and they'll be about perfect if cooked evenly. I think folks might put water in the pan and cook too slow to get good bark. Cook too slow and the water won't simmer as much, either. Right?

Back to your queastion though, I saw a Masterbuilt electric smoker infomercial a while back on the shopping network or something. Anyway, the clear selling point was MOISTURE in the meat, and what they wanted to show off was how moist the chicken was even after cooked so tender it was falling off the bone. They didn't care or comment on the skin, but most of my family doesn't eat the skin anyway. Anyway, clearly, the humidity from the water pan slows evaporation along with the fact that it's a very closed environment. Cookshak and other electric smokers don't have water pans though since they know you can have too much humidity in the pit to develop bark, as you mentioned.

Sorry so long! Have a good un'.
 
one of the major things that makes bbq, etc so much fun is that you do get to mess around and find what works for you. i found i prefer a couple of bricks in the pan. i don't foil. i do high heat cooks, on and on. but i found this out by playing around. so do that and if you find water works for you then we all will be happy for you.
 
I love that BBQ is the perfect format for sitting around discussing different techniques and why they work. Nothing like sitting around the smoker, discussing why your personal method works, and then later having the proof to backup you words.

Mike
 
Exactly, Mike. What's tough is that my family won't give up much info about what they like best, like if they like what's on their plate better than the way I did it last time or not. I just have to go by how quick they seem to eat it and how much they like it, since discussing the food too much at the table almost borders on the obscene. Every once in a while I'll get a hint though like when my son told me he didn't really like bark on ribs. What he meant was that he doesn't prefer thick chewy bark on spares, and the comment was in regard to a dinner where I'd cooked the spares faster with no wrapping and no water in the pan. Some folks like 'em like that though, so like George implied, whatever makes you happy.
icon_smile.gif
 
Good post with a variety of thoughts. My take is that the folks at Weber engineered this unit to be used with water; otherwise, why would they include a component called a "water pan". However, the important item to remember is that one can do great smokes with this unit using water, bricks, sand, clay pot plates or just about whatever one wants to use. We all have our preferences and one is not better than the other. The goal is to have fun and produce great smokes.

My preference is to use water in the pan. I find that, for me, I can get more consistent temps with wonderful results.

Take care and enjoy the WSM!!!
 
I'm a believer in the heat sink philosophy. I think the electric and gas manufacturers put a pan in based on the misconception that it's a moisture thing. Just my opinion. I've eaten some pretty good bbq from people in both camps so in the end, I think it comes down to whatever works for you.
 
It's nothing more than a heat sink to me. While water will create a more humid cooking environment, it really is a negligible effect, and one that adds time to the cook, not moisture to the meat.

I haven't noticed any significant difference in the finished product, having gone both with water and empty pan. I just found it much easier to get to higher temps with no water, and easier to maintain steady temps with water.
 
A few thoughts, the water pan in gas and electric smokers may be there to catch dripping so they don't flare or fire up..as for the wsm water in the water pan is the way to go for steady controlable temps, I say this because no mater how close you try to control the burn it will continue to spread until all the coals are lit and the wsm holds a lot of charcoal creating more burning surface area, possibly the only way to get a good controlable temp w/o water and possibly no spikes or constant rises in temps is to layer your charcoal in a circle around the basket but not connecting the ring so it burns around the outside diameter of the ring in a steady measured amount. I'm also not using an ATC of any kind and I've tried just about everything under the sun in the water pan. Like I said this is just thinking out load so to speak.
 
I agree 100% with sean. I cook with and without water about the same and I don't have any trouble maintaining temps without. Usually without is for a HH brisket so I'm running in the mid 300 area but I use it for ribs or chicken and I'm able to keep it anywhere from 250-275 no problem.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Don Reed:
A few thoughts, the water pan in gas and electric smokers may be there to catch dripping so they don't flare or fire up.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This

And for flavor too... In a vertical type smoker the heat sink is usually hot because its right over the coals. Any drippings that hit just the hot metal pan are likely to give off a bad tasting smoke and/or damage the pan. Adding a bit of water prevents that. Or you can just add foil/pot whatever suits your fancy but I have found that even those are liable to give off some bad tasting smoke.
 
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