temp diff between bottom & top grate, w/o water in pan?


 
D

Dimitri

New member
From what I understand, when there's water in the pan, there's a 5-10 degree difference in temperature, between the top and bottom grates.

But what if the pan's empty? I presume that the bottom grate will be hotter. But by how much?

I tried searching the forum, but couldn't find an answer.

I'll be cooking 4 briskets this coming holiday weekend, and knowing the answer will help me determine which briskets get placed on which racks.

Dimitri
 
Dimitri, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't really matter. Since I know the bottom grate is hotter, my bigger pieces of meat go on the bottom and the smaller ones on top.
 
I got to back paul up. You're going to go nuts trying to figure out the minor temp difference that exist inside a cooking wsm.

I'm hoping, someday, to wire one up with thermocouples so I can get a better handle on the temp variances, but this is more for curiosity, and probably won't have much practical applications other than giving new users another variable to obsess about.

If you rotate meats at 1/2 points, have a good handle on judging doneness, and have patience enough to wait out doneness, small temp differences will be inconsequential.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by paul h:
Dimitri, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't really matter. Since I know the bottom grate is hotter, my bigger pieces of meat go on the bottom and the smaller ones on top. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto.
 
Thanks for the responses.

I was wondering this not because I wanted to obsess over exact calculations; quite the opposite:

I wanted to avoid checking the meat on the bottom grate, until *after* the top meat is done and removed from the top grate.

Otherwise, I'll need to pull off the top grate (with 20 lbs of meat on it!) every time I check the doneness of the bottom grate's meat.

Would rotating the meat help avoid my having to check the bottom grate's doneness, until the top grate's meats are done? If yes, please elaborate, as I don't see how.

If I have to pull the top grate off (with the meat still on it), in order to check the bottom grate's meat, then so be it; I was just wondering if there's some way to avoid it, that's all.

Thanks.
Dimitri
 
Dimitri--Order yourself an ET-73, which comes with a probe for pit temperature, and one for meat temperature. Order an additional meat probe from Maverick and tag it "LOWER" near the plug. Insert the "LOWER" meat probe into the meat on the bottom rack and the other probe into the meat on the top rack. Then you can alternate plugging the meat probes into the ET-73 and check temps without going through the hassle of removing the top rack or the lid. I obtained an eyelet (search here, I don't remember where)and you can feed both meat probes through it and feed your pit probe throught the top vent if you are utilizing all three probes. Hope this helps. Tom
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Chris A did a write up on your question here </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey that's cool. I guess I don't need to do my experiment.

His data shows that the wsm is actually a pretty amazing cooker(which we already knew)that holds fairly uniform temps throughout, despite our constant complaining. Those temp differences really seem insignificant.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I was wondering this not because I wanted to obsess over exact calculations; quite the opposite: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

no sweat, I wasn't implying that you were obsessing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would rotating the meat help avoid my having to check the bottom grate's doneness, until the top grate's meats are done? If yes, please elaborate, as I don't see how. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try to avoid using the lower grate and since I run two wsm's now, I can't recall the last time I did.

1) do rotate them at 50% of eta, and again at 75% and look for signs that any are further along than others.

2) I don't know how you can avoid checking them all for doneness. one thing that might help you though would be a long metal skewer that will allow you to probe them through the access door or down through the top.
 
Thanks for the link to the temperature tests.

According to those tests, the bottom grate runs cooler than the top grate. I thought that the bottom grate would be hotter.

I'm confused. Which is it? (I'll be smoking 4 11-13 lb packer briskets: 2 on top; 2 on bottom).

Regarding the suggestion for meat thermometer probes, that's a great idea, but I won't have time to receive them by this Saturday.

Regarding the suggestion to buy a second WSM... yeah, that would solve it, but would leave me with a bigger problem: how to convince my wife to let me back in the house.

Looks like I'll just need to suck it up and rotate them at roughly the halfway and three-quarters mark, as was suggested.

Thanks guys.
Dimitri
 
Hey Dimitri!
icon_smile.gif
Rotating the grates works well ... If you don't want to rotate due to heavy/bulkiness, you can simply put the 2 heaviest briskets on top (where it's warmer) and leave them there, "knowing", that when they're done, the bottom briskets will be too...
icon_wink.gif
 
Dimitri, when you cook with no water in the pan the bottom grate is the hotter one. It's just the reverse of cooking with water. I would invest in a ET73 also.Put one of the probes in the meat on the low rack. That way you don't have to keep pulling everything off to check the temp of meat on the bottom. Makes it a lot simpler.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">According to those tests, the bottom grate runs cooler than the top grate. I thought that the bottom grate would be hotter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagreed with some of the data myself. Dome temp, for one, can be tricky because the hottest point in the wsm seems to be the air flowing out the top vent and the coldest spot seems to be the area in the dome opposite the vent (where weber installed their therm). But the good news (like I mentioned before) is that the differences seem small.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">According to those tests, the bottom grate runs cooler than the top grate. I thought that the bottom grate would be hotter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagreed with some of the data myself. Dome temp, for one, can be tricky because the hottest point in the wsm seems to be the air flowing out the top vent and the coldest spot seems to be the area in the dome opposite the vent (where weber installed their therm). But the good news (like I mentioned before) is that the differences seem small. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking the same thing myself. In my experience the lid temp has been lower than the top grate especially during the beginning of the cook. Near the end the temps seemed to be closer together. But, like you said there isn't enough of a difference to really worry about.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">According to those tests, the bottom grate runs cooler than the top grate. I thought that the bottom grate would be hotter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagreed with some of the data myself. Dome temp, for one, can be tricky because the hottest point in the wsm seems to be the air flowing out the top vent and the coldest spot seems to be the area in the dome opposite the vent (where weber installed their therm). But the good news (like I mentioned before) is that the differences seem small. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, I noticed the other day that with my top vent 100% open my grate temp was higher than the lid temp. I cut the top vent back to 50% and the grate temp and lid temp were almost identical. I concluded the air flow had a lot to do with it.
 
Thanks again to everyone for their responses.

For this weekend's 4 briskets, I'm just going to put the 2 largest on the bottom grate, and the 2 smallest on top.

Bam. Done.

When the top ones are done, I'll take them off and then check the bottom ones (which will be much easier now without 20 lbs of weight).

If the bottom meats are also done at the same, mission accomplished.
If they still need some time to cook (i.e., they're not overdone), mission accomplished again.
If they happen to slightly overdone, so be it.

In the end, I'll be serving it with a side of tzatziki, so dry or not, it'll still taste great.

Thanks again guys.
Dimitri
 
Cool beans Dimitri!
I think that the temps that Chris A used was in the 225-250 deg area with an empty pan.
If you run at a higher temp like 275-300 you should expect your lower grate to run quite a bit hotter than your top grate.

Tim
 
I think if I keep the WSM's thermometer in the 225-250 range (with the occasional dip or spike), it should be sufficient to keep the meats (regardless of grate placement) in the 225-275 degree range for most of the time.

I'll try to document the process along the way, with photos and notes, as best I can, in case others (particularly newbies like me) are interested in giving it a go.

Later,
D
 
Dimitri,

I, for one, Would be very interested in hearing the info from your cook. You should download the Cook log from the cooking section on this sites home page.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Barineau:
Dimitri--Order yourself an ET-73, which comes with a probe for pit temperature, and one for meat temperature. Order an additional meat probe from Maverick and tag it "LOWER" near the plug. Insert the "LOWER" meat probe into the meat on the bottom rack and the other probe into the meat on the top rack. Then you can alternate plugging the meat probes into the ET-73 and check temps without going through the hassle of removing the top rack or the lid. I obtained an eyelet (search here, I don't remember where)and you can feed both meat probes through it and feed your pit probe throught the top vent if you are utilizing all three probes. Hope this helps. Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This man is no doubt a freaking genius!
I am going to order more probes now.
 
You simply ned to get a hinged grate for the top rack. That way you can put on a glove so you can reach down and probe test the bottom cuts.
 
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