Still Can't Nail This Brisket Gig!


 
Mike P.

Mike P.

TVWBB All-Star
So far I've had success with butts, ribs and semi-success with three brisket smokes out of seven total smokes on the WSM. I've made logs and made changes to try to go to the next brisket level. So far I've been ending up with tougher brisket than is the norm for the good Pro's on this board.

Yesterday's smoke went crazy with temps and time. Had a 5.5 lb. deckle on brisket trimmed rather close on one side with about 1/4" of fat on the other side. Full ring of KB with 4 hickory chunks. Water in pan. OAT's in the 50's, light wind. Used a dalmatian rub with a little onion and garlic power. Used my Maverick ET 732 with probes on top grill and in thickest part of meat.

All went well for about the first 3 hours. Holding between 240 & 250*. Hit the stall at about 142* for about an hour. Added some water to pan and another chunk of hickory. Minor vent adjustments during this time. Came out of the stall and in about another hour hit 172* internal meat temp. My target temp was 185* internal. Meat temp stayed at 172* for close to another hour. At this point, I began to suspect something was wrong so I used 2 other thermometers to verify meat temp. All were in about 3* of each other. I replaced the lid and decided to try to obtain 185* meat temp. About ten minutes later, The smoker temp started to rise. I closed all vents and it continued to rise till it hit 280*. At this point I pulled the meat off the grill and let rest uncovered of about an hour.

When I went to slice it, It was too done on the edges and semi-tuff. Not bad but I know it can be a lot better. Most of all, it was done through and through at 172* internal! This came as a surprise to me as it goes against a lot of what I've learned and read here.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should change/try? I've got an on going battle with BNL and a REP to protect! Was hoping to make a "Knock Your Socks Off" brisket for Christmas. I may need to get a few more smokes under my belt though. I WILL get to the Brisket Promised Land someday.

Any and All input appreciated!
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Thanks!
 
Mike, everything you said sounds good, I to have had little success with the smaller briskets, but for some reason the full packers 12 - 15 lb seem to come out better, I dont know why.
 
Mike,

I'm really not as experienced with brisket as I am with a lot of other things, but I've had great success following Kevin Kruger's high heat method as described in this and other threads. I think foiling is key to breaking down the brisket enough to be tender, and I know it worked for me. It's actually a pretty painless cook with repeatable results.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave O:
Mike, everything you said sounds good, I to have had little success with the smaller briskets, but for some reason the full packers 12 - 15 lb seem to come out better, I dont know why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Dave. My 1st one was bigger and it turned out better than the smaller ones later. I may be trying to kill a housefly with a tank here.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jon Des.:
Mike,

I'm really not as experienced with brisket as I am with a lot of other things, but I've had great success following Kevin Kruger's high heat method as described in this and other threads. I think foiling is key to breaking down the brisket enough to be tender, and I know it worked for me. It's actually a pretty painless cook with repeatable results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you John, I've been reading about a lot of folks that prefer that method. I will do it next time with a bigger cut.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was too done on the edges </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What specifically do you mean by this?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave O:
Mike,...I to have had little success with the smaller briskets, but for some reason the full packers 12 - 15 lb seem to come out better, I dont know why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DITTO.

Targeting 235* at the grate, I'd peek to check for tenderness no earlier than the 12 hr. mark.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It was too done on the edges </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What specifically do you mean by this? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kevin, I do know about burnt ends and all but the meat appeared to over cook in a very short period of time especially around all edges. It's like it was going along just fine for about 3 hours, hit the stall at 142* then up to 172* after about an additional hour once out of the stall. But once out of it, the meats internal temp did not rise. This is why I used the term Crazy temps (to me anyway).

Since my original post, I've had it in the fridge overnight. Sliced about half of whats left and left the biggest chunk intact and Food Saved both the slices and the chunk. They are DRY and overdone. (Got Those Low Down Brisket Fail Depression Blues!) Hey, There's a song title!
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I just can't figure out how time and temps could show the meat being so underdone when it was overdone.

Got a good brisket chile recipe to rejuvenate dry brisket?

Thanks for checking this post Kevin.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave O:
Mike, everything you said sounds good, I to have had little success with the smaller briskets, but for some reason the full packers 12 - 15 lb seem to come out better, I dont know why. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DITTO.

Targeting 235* at the grate, I'd peek to check for tenderness no earlier than the 12 hr. mark. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Dave, Looks like I'm going to have to find bigger beef.
 
no way is that thing done at 172 int temp. you need to be near the 200 mark +- a few degrees. i let it get to 195 and then start with the probe test. as to the temps of the wsm reached, you were in no danger zone(high temp) at all. and as with any brisket that has a lot of variables in thickness yer always gonna have some overdone parts. these i like to chop up and use in bbq spaghetti.
 
1. Meat won't absorb smoke > 140

2. You probably pulled the meat 15-20 degrees too early. And, as Kevin K. says, temp has nothing to do with it....it's when you manually check for tenderness. (That said, I rarely pull a brisket < 192-195.)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monty House:
1. Meat won't absorb smoke > 140
< 192-195.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's one of my favorite internet myths confusing smoke ring with smoke flavor.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's one of my favorite internet myths confusing smoke ring with smoke flavor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed.

Meat doesn't absorb smoke in typical barbecue sessions - whether high heat or low/slow. Smoke particulates stick to the meat's surface. The smokering is a chemical reaction that takes place at the surface. It can extend inward causing the identifiable ring we all know and love, but it is not due to smoke 'penetration' or 'absorption' as one often sees repeated on websites and in forums.

Smoke will continue to stick to meat as long as it is present. All the way through the cook if it's there, irrespective of meat temp. It's the chemical reaction that creates the smokering that quits when the meat temp rises.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...yer always gonna have some overdone parts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> With low/slow cooks this is more common, especially with briskets that taper dramatically as so many do. Not so with high heat, a key reason why I prefer it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I just can't figure out how time and temps could show the meat being so underdone when it was overdone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not convinced it was overdone. Underdone brisket will read as dry. Seemingly dry edges might be due to the rub. Dunno.

Temps do not show underdone nor overdone. Internal temps have nothing to do with it. It's a matter of time. Judging by what appears to be your time - and if your temps were accurate - it would appear that the meat was underdone.

For small pieces of brisket you would likely have much better results if you foil at ~160, especially if trimmed (if very trimmed or thin I suggest foiling a bit lower; no way your brisket was deckle-on as trimmed 'close on one side means the deckle was removed, as is virtually always the case).

Cook till tender, not to a particular internal temp. Give it another shot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Got a good brisket chile recipe to rejuvenate dry brisket? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> See here.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard Marquez:
I often do 5-6 lb flats and they come out magical. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With or without foiling during the cook?
 
Well, thanks to all for the replies. You've given me a lot to think about. I will try again and make sure of the cut of meat I use, Trim it myself, make sure it is bigger, and consider foil. And Kevin, thanks for the recipe. This may get me out of the doghouse with the wife!
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The decline of Brisket. Ten years ago USDA was strictly a guide to marbling not flavor. Having cooked, taught and won coast to coast I've noticed a speedy decline in Brisket quality. Ten years ago a USDA Select grade IBP Brisket did take first place going against world champions and USDA prime. I sincerely doubt you could do that again. In spring 2010 Sam's in Texas had full packer Angus USDA choice briskets. Cooked side by side with a USDA select from Wally World the choice won hands down and the USDA select was bland. Spring 2011 and Sam's in Texas had Angus USDA Choice flats and USDA select packers. By Fall 2011 the flats are nondescript choice and the packers select. I can still find Angus USDA choice packers at Sam's in Washington state. Costco has tasty USDA choice brisket at every location that carries Brisket coast to coat. For those in who have access to Costco business center they have a better selection of meat. Wagyu has won for me but I'm not a fan. I prefer USDA prime or Cargill Sterling Silver. Full disclosure I have been a paid spokesperson for Cargill. I know one of the root causes of a lot of calls I get from my students about disappointing Brisket results can be traced to where they sourced their meat. HEB and most other grocery stores fail to impress me. That's my $0.02.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Konrad Haskins:
The decline of Brisket. Ten years ago USDA was strictly a guide to marbling not flavor. Having cooked, taught and won coast to coast I've noticed a speedy decline in Brisket quality. Ten years ago a USDA Select grade IBP Brisket did take first place going against world champions and USDA prime. I sincerely doubt you could do that again. In spring 2010 Sam's in Texas had full packer Angus USDA choice briskets. Cooked side by side with a USDA select from Wally World the choice won hands down and the USDA select was bland. Spring 2011 and Sam's in Texas had Angus USDA Choice flats and USDA select packers. By Fall 2011 the flats are nondescript choice and the packers select. I can still find Angus USDA choice packers at Sam's in Washington state. Costco has tasty USDA choice brisket at every location that carries Brisket coast to coat. For those in who have access to Costco business center they have a better selection of meat. Wagyu has won for me but I'm not a fan. I prefer USDA prime or Cargill Sterling Silver. Full disclosure I have been a paid spokesperson for Cargill. I know one of the root causes of a lot of calls I get from my students about disappointing Brisket results can be traced to where they sourced their meat. HEB and most other grocery stores fail to impress me. That's my $0.02. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Konrad, Thanks for your post!

You know my Dad always said, when I was learning the fine art of Bass fishing as a boy, "It's the section between the rod handle and the boat seat that count", when we not catching fish. I learned later in life that sometimes, the fish are not there to be caught. He was saying, Keep Trying!

The meat purchased for the 3 brisket cooks I've attempted on the WSM have all came from the same chain grocery store. That's the 1st thing that will change. You know, The last thing a guy wants to blame here is the meat. I do have to agree that all types of meat we purchase around here are not what they used to be. And a higher price to boot. There are a few butchers left around here. Will look for better cuts.

Lastly, It is very true around here that brisket can be labeled in a less than an honest way. Deckle on etc. Not a lot of anything besides USDA either. No Choice, Prime, etc. on the label sometimes.

Thanks again.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Costco has tasty USDA choice brisket at every location that carries Brisket coast to coat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've only found the Costco Business Centers to have choice packers. All of the retail locations I've been to only carry choice flats.

I appreciate how the Business Centers make it pretty clear what section is Select and what is Choice. They even put it above the cases on the wall.
 
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