Starting method vs. temperature stability
- Thread starter Duncan J
- Start date
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
Hmm. Hard to say. What is your experience with the MM? Are you: a) using lump or Kingsford? b) adding the lit to the unlit and smokewood, assembling the cooker, adding water (or sand or whatever), loading the meat--all in succession? c) leaving all vents open till the temp is shy of your target by ~50 degrees then starting to close lower vents? d) if so, how much to you close them, where does the temp seem to settle?
From this point, is it a matter of fluctuating temps that you seem to have to deal with vent opening anf closing, or...what?
From this point, is it a matter of fluctuating temps that you seem to have to deal with vent opening anf closing, or...what?
After I submitted the post, I knew I was gonna be asked these valid questions.
I'm pretty new to to the WSM. I've only got 6 or so smokes under my belt. Every time, I've used Kingsford with 4 pieces of smoke wood, full water pan, meat loaded all at once on top grill. I start with the vents all open.
You mention bringing down vents when temp is ~ 50 degrees. I've been letting it get closer to target then closing vents to 50%. It usually overshoots, then I close vents some more, then it goes below target, I open vents some, temp goes above target, and the visious cycle continues. I'm monitoring every 15 minutes.
I only mentioned the starting method because the few times I used standard starting, the temp came up to target, I adjusted the vents, and it held just where I wanted it.
I get kinda paranoid about keeping the WSM at target temp. It's very possible I mess with the vents too much.
What would you recommend for getting to target temp in regards to opening vents (timing, % open/close, etc).
Much appreciated!
I'm pretty new to to the WSM. I've only got 6 or so smokes under my belt. Every time, I've used Kingsford with 4 pieces of smoke wood, full water pan, meat loaded all at once on top grill. I start with the vents all open.
You mention bringing down vents when temp is ~ 50 degrees. I've been letting it get closer to target then closing vents to 50%. It usually overshoots, then I close vents some more, then it goes below target, I open vents some, temp goes above target, and the visious cycle continues. I'm monitoring every 15 minutes.
I only mentioned the starting method because the few times I used standard starting, the temp came up to target, I adjusted the vents, and it held just where I wanted it.
I get kinda paranoid about keeping the WSM at target temp. It's very possible I mess with the vents too much.
What would you recommend for getting to target temp in regards to opening vents (timing, % open/close, etc).
Much appreciated!
David Lohrentz
TVWBB Pro
Try closing your vents a little sooner. If I am aiming for 275, I close all bottom vents to about 1/3 open when the pit temp hits 225. Then close down more when it gets to 265. You want your temps to be coming up slowly when they are getting close to the target. It isn't a big deal if you miss by 20 degrees, but I find that I can nail my target with minion method starts unless I got preoccupied and wasn't paying attention.
Duncan,
I used to have similar issues, but since I quit using water (I'm a Piedmont pan convert) my WSMs run like clockwork. I start with 8-10 lit Kingsford briquettes on a full charcoal ring, either K or lump, with 4-6 hardwood chunks. Bottom vents at 1/4 open at the start, and I'll be at 200-225 within one hour. I adjust vents from there depending on what the temperature does in the next couple hours. No big changes, I just tweak them.
I believe that using water forces me to run the charcoal hotter to get the water boiling and then heat up the smoker. Once the water is hot, getting the fire under control is difficult.
Without water I only have to manage the fire and WSM temperature which I find easier to do.
Jim
I used to have similar issues, but since I quit using water (I'm a Piedmont pan convert) my WSMs run like clockwork. I start with 8-10 lit Kingsford briquettes on a full charcoal ring, either K or lump, with 4-6 hardwood chunks. Bottom vents at 1/4 open at the start, and I'll be at 200-225 within one hour. I adjust vents from there depending on what the temperature does in the next couple hours. No big changes, I just tweak them.
I believe that using water forces me to run the charcoal hotter to get the water boiling and then heat up the smoker. Once the water is hot, getting the fire under control is difficult.
Without water I only have to manage the fire and WSM temperature which I find easier to do.
Jim
I skipped the Minion Method on my first try at ribs today. After reading some of the threads I thought I'd give the standard method a shot. Worked like a charm. Lit one full chimney and dumped into the ring and then dumped another unlit chimney on top of that. Added 3 chunks cherry and 3 chunks maple. All 3 bottom vents closed and top vent open. Maintained 225* for 4 hours with NO PROBLEM!!
Seems to me that the trick to the Minion Method is to bring the temp up to target slowly. You don't want to get to 225 as fast as possible and then try to stop the temp from rising, you want to slow down the temp from rising right from the start. If you have a big enough fire going to raise temps fast in the cooker when it's still fairly cool you're not going to be able to cut back that fire later when you're getting close to your target temp.
Paul Balzotti
TVWBB Fan
Jim
with the standard method that you did, did you put the WSM back together right after you put the unlit coals on or after they turned white?
Last time I used the standard method I let the coals turn all white before I put the WSM back together and I had the temp up for a while but not four hours I had to add coals and do the kick the bottom leg gently method to get the temp back up. I was using Kingsford.
with the standard method that you did, did you put the WSM back together right after you put the unlit coals on or after they turned white?
Last time I used the standard method I let the coals turn all white before I put the WSM back together and I had the temp up for a while but not four hours I had to add coals and do the kick the bottom leg gently method to get the temp back up. I was using Kingsford.
adam clyde
TVWBB Pro
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eric W:
Seems to me that the trick to the Minion Method is to bring the temp up to target slowly. You don't want to get to 225 as fast as possible and then try to stop the temp from rising... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly. If you shoot it up too quickly (even if you start clamping down close to your target) you'll have lit too much charcoal and you'll have two problems. First, it will be hard to keep the temps down, and two, you'll have burned through a lot of charcoal quickly.
If you aren't in a hurry, then let ut temps rise fairly slowly to near the target temp. For a butt smoke I did the other day, I just let them rise slowly to 245. I started minion method with vents only at 50% open, then at about 220, closed to 25% on all. It ran without any touch whatsoever for the next 16 hours in the 230-245 range.
With ribs, I want my temps to come up a little quicker, so I start it at 100 percent open, but then start clamp them down at around 210 or so. I like my ribs at around 275, and doing it that way can get me in that range in about 30 minutes.
Seems to me that the trick to the Minion Method is to bring the temp up to target slowly. You don't want to get to 225 as fast as possible and then try to stop the temp from rising... </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly. If you shoot it up too quickly (even if you start clamping down close to your target) you'll have lit too much charcoal and you'll have two problems. First, it will be hard to keep the temps down, and two, you'll have burned through a lot of charcoal quickly.
If you aren't in a hurry, then let ut temps rise fairly slowly to near the target temp. For a butt smoke I did the other day, I just let them rise slowly to 245. I started minion method with vents only at 50% open, then at about 220, closed to 25% on all. It ran without any touch whatsoever for the next 16 hours in the 230-245 range.
With ribs, I want my temps to come up a little quicker, so I start it at 100 percent open, but then start clamp them down at around 210 or so. I like my ribs at around 275, and doing it that way can get me in that range in about 30 minutes.
i've been using a hybrid method for my burns... i've only got 2 rounds under my belt on the WSM, but here's how i've been doin it and it's been working great so far...
1. place a nice layer of lump inside the ring (about 1-1.5 chimney full)
2. fire up another chimney full (i've been using the smaller generic chimney instead of the weber one)
3. once coal are good-n-hot i dump them in on top of the unlit ones
4. place my chunks in
5. toss a couple handfuls of lump on top of that...
I've gotten nice steady temps and VERY long burns for the amount of coals i've been using... ballpark of 5lbs of lump total has gotten me beyond the ten hour mark very easily... is this "right" according to the book??? not really, but its working well and i'll continue doing it until i can find a reason not to...
edit - by the way, i'm using royal oak lump
1. place a nice layer of lump inside the ring (about 1-1.5 chimney full)
2. fire up another chimney full (i've been using the smaller generic chimney instead of the weber one)
3. once coal are good-n-hot i dump them in on top of the unlit ones
4. place my chunks in
5. toss a couple handfuls of lump on top of that...
I've gotten nice steady temps and VERY long burns for the amount of coals i've been using... ballpark of 5lbs of lump total has gotten me beyond the ten hour mark very easily... is this "right" according to the book??? not really, but its working well and i'll continue doing it until i can find a reason not to...
edit - by the way, i'm using royal oak lump
Rusty Barton
TVWBB Pro
I think the number one test should be if your WSM can snuff out a ring of charcoal halfway through a burn.
On my WSM, if I close all the vents, it will snuff out the charcoal fire. I can open the WSM the next morning and find the charcoal out and cold with a good portion of the charcoal unburnt. There will be half pieces, but I won't just have a ring of ashes.
If your WSM will not snuff out the charcoal, then you have serious air leaks that are probably causing the temperature control problems.
On my WSM, if I close all the vents, it will snuff out the charcoal fire. I can open the WSM the next morning and find the charcoal out and cold with a good portion of the charcoal unburnt. There will be half pieces, but I won't just have a ring of ashes.
If your WSM will not snuff out the charcoal, then you have serious air leaks that are probably causing the temperature control problems.
Steve Abrams
TVWBB Pro
I'm probably wrong on this one but, isn't the Minnion Method supposed to be for long cooks? 14 - 18 hour cooks? In a long cook using the MM you will get some upward & downward spikes. Ignore them. This is new coals starting up, ash falling off lit coals or coals dieing out before enough new ones get lit.
I think anything under 8 hours would probably be a waste of time. Doing ribs or chicken you can start up the "regular" way.
I think anything under 8 hours would probably be a waste of time. Doing ribs or chicken you can start up the "regular" way.
David Lohrentz
TVWBB Pro
With the clay pot base, I prefer minion method starts even for a planned 6 hour burn time. For me it is just easier to nail my target temp with minion method starts. For chicken I almost always use the kettle and do them at higher temps.
Paul,
I waited until the unlit chimney was poured on and turned completely white. Then added the smoke wood chunks and let them start burning just a bit. Then assembled the cooker and put meat on. I was using Kingsford as well. I didn't have to add any more charcoal at all. In fact, I could have cooked another 5 hours. Hope this helps you out.
I waited until the unlit chimney was poured on and turned completely white. Then added the smoke wood chunks and let them start burning just a bit. Then assembled the cooker and put meat on. I was using Kingsford as well. I didn't have to add any more charcoal at all. In fact, I could have cooked another 5 hours. Hope this helps you out.