Smoking at 178 degrees or less???


 
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Jim Babek

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The local butcher recently started smoking some meats and selling them in his store. He smokes chickens, chicken and turkey breasts, ham, and bacon. We started talking and he said his smoker has an auto shut off at 178. Seems to me like that temp would leave the meat, especially the poultry at a vulnerable temp quite a while. Then when I told him how we smoke meat on the WSM he said it was way too hot. Trying to explain that it was a different method of cooking was too fustrating. Does his smoking technique constitute hot smoking?
 
Somebody that knows more than me needs to jump in, but it basically the difference between cooking and curing.

Most of what gets talked about on this BB is smoke cooking. Smoke curing is at much lower temps than most of us use.

More like what my grand pappy did in the smoke house.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Susan Z:
My grand pappy did 8 to 10 in the smokehouse. Oh, wait, that was the big house.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's funny!
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Curing takes a long time, but 8 to 10 yrs may be a little long.
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Your grand pappy must have been really done by then.
 
Hummm? 178* might be fine with cured meat, but not with chicken and turkey that is not cured?? I wonder if he meant the smoker turned off when the meat hit 178*. Something just doesn't sound right. Unless there is somehting I don't know. Has the butcher had any repeat customers? Or are they all dead from salmonella???
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By the way Jim.........what is a choken?
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As I understand it, there is cold-smoking at about 70-90 degrees, there is hot smoking at about 150-170 degrees, there is BBQing at about 220-250 or 275, and there is grilling at about 300 and up. Correct me if you know different.

I smoke a lot of salmon at about 150-160. Comes out great and nobody's ever gotten sick from it. And then I also BBQ salmon at about 240, but I don't ever consider the BBQed salmon "smoked".
 
John,
I knew there were different temps of smoking. I would think the cold smoke would certainly be done on cured meats only, right? I too, smoke my salmon at a lower temp but, IMHO wouldn't do poulty at that low of a temp. That is just me, like I said before I am anal about some things.

I bet you get all the salmon you want living up in WA! Lucky man.
 
I think the cold smoking is just the cured meats, but I was reading up on the process for the smoked salmon you see on the store shelves in the box with no refrigeration. They cold smoke that without curing it (unless brining is a type of curing) for a few days, then they run it through a heating process (pasteurizing maybe), that makes it able to be stored without refrigeration.

I was looking to modify my method so it didn't need refrigeration afterwards, but concluded that the heating process would have altered the results enough to change the flavor/texture. Didn't want to do that.

Maybe the butcher Jim mentioned brines or cures it first so it ends up safe? Don't know. I get a little weirded out by that stuff too.

Yeah, I have a neighbor who has an Indian (Native American) friend who fishes for his living, so I can get salmon for about a $1 a lb., $2 a lb. for Kings. Can't beat that!
 
Not sure if brining is a "cure" either. Unless you put the "cure" in the brine. I know salt is a "preservative", but not 100% sure on the cure.
 
There's an article in the current issue of Wine Spectator on meat smoking (not barbecueing)-- if anyone subscribes-- that talks about cold and hot smoking.
 
He does brine the chicken before putting it in the smoker, wather, salt and brown sugar. When done the skin is much lighter than anything off the WSM. The skin looks identical to any chicken breast you would find in the other stores, a light golden brown. I havent tried the chicken yet since Im still not sure of the temp thing...others say its great.
 
Jim,
There is only one way to figure out if he is doing it right! Eat it and you will know! If we don't hear back from you then we know he was cooking at the wrong temp!
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I found this link on smoking (with cure) and cooking (with smoke) turkeys, chickens, and hams.

Smoked turkey

Basically, if cure is used, the internal temp only has to go to 160 and the smoker can run at 185. Without the cure, you need a higher temp both internally and for the cooker/smoker.
 
I bought some of his ham and bacon and have to say it was the best Ive ever tasted. A very mild smoke, I would have liked more, and very very little salt to it. Absolutely delicious.
 
I've always understood the bacteria danger zone to be between 40-140 degrees, so it would seem that if he's smoking chickens or whatever at 178 you wouldn't have to worry about salmonella, etc.

Rick
 
This from ochef.com:

There are two types of smoking — cold smoking, which occurs at temperatures of less than 85°F (30°C), and hot smoking, which takes place between 120° and 180°F (50° and 82°C). In between the two is a kind of no-man’s land, and above 180° is not smoking, but cooking. Whichever kind of smoking you intend to do, you need a source of heat and smoke, a chamber in which the food is smoked, and a source of air. The air enters at the bottom of the smoke chamber, mingles with the smoke, swirls about imparting the smoky flavor to the food, draws off some of the moisture from the food, and exits through a vent. At the end of the process, the food has picked up the smoky flavor and been dried somewhat.

Cold smoking is a big deal, is used for hams, bacon, some sausages and some fish, involves some kind of mechanism that allows you to cool the smoke before it reaches the food, and can take upwards of two weeks from start to finish.
 
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