Sharp like a razor, or dull like a burned out lightbulb?


 
J

Joey K

TVWBB Member
So there I was, I had just pulled 3 chickens of my WSM after checking that their internal temps were good. I grabbed my favorite cutting tool and went at those chickens, when I realized that the thing wouldn't even make a dent in the skin. Now granted, I did do a low and slow smoke so I rather expected a tough skin but so tough that my knife wouldn't even make a dent. I figured it was about time to run the thing over the stone and steel. But I couldn't find my blasted stone.

I've never been that great with a stone and a steel but I watched my dad do it quite a lot and picked up the basics. So I'm looking to replace my lost sharpening tools and I started thinking that with my lack of skill on the stone and steel would I be better off getting one of those hand held sharpeners like this or should I go for the stone and try to stick with it and master the stone and steel route?

What do you all think, what do you use to keep those blades sharp?
 
IMHO go back to the stone. Get a good double grit Arkansas stone. Medium one side fine the other. Now comes the practice with some old knives (Not serrated). Depending on the stone you buy, follow the instructions to prepare the stone for use Oil or Water).

You want a stone at least somewhat close in length to the length of knife you most often use and sharpen. Shorter knives are no problem this way.

Now just lay the blade down on the knife at a 45 degree angle at the end of the stone and then roll it down to half of that (roughly 20-22 degrees). This ofcourse is done on the rougher side. Use the whole length of the stone in the swipe. Now take three smooth swipes at this angle and then turn the knife over and do three more the same way. Depending on the knife condition this could take about 12-16 strokes each side or as little as 3 each side.

Now turn the stone to the fine side and repeat the above going with 3 and 3. After 6 on each side test the knife by dragging the blade across your thumbnail at a 30 degree angle. If it slides off smoothly start over again. If the blade digs in and holds on...use the steel to get rid of the burrs. She's ready to go.

It does take practice and in the end it will out do anything out there for the normal person.
I had friend who worked in a furniture factory as a knife grinder and he used machines to do the grinding but when it came time to hone that edge he always went back to the stones.

HTH
Chuck W.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Clark "Harbormaster" Hodgson:
Lanskey Sharpening system from Gander Mountain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll second that, I've used the Lansky system since the 80's.
 
Get a good quality Norton stone. It will last
you a lifetime. When you get it, sharpen all of
your knives, then your relatives, and then your
neighbors. You should have it dialed in by then.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike F.:
Joey, look here------------

search </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe...guess that searching first might be a good idea
icon_redface.gif
icon_redface.gif
(though I'm trying not be just a lurker but atcually a part of the forum)
 
I have Shapton stones and an Edge Pro system. I also have a lot of knives, many of which are quite expensive. For a number of years I've mostly cooked alone (no staff) and so I tend to prep and/or cook quickly. This means that for a dinner, say, I might use 5-8 different knives--it's quicker to grab task-specific knives than to make do with one or two and wash them a lot. With the exception of diced tomatoes and the odd jar of roasted peppers I buy little in the way of canned, jarred or frozen vegetables, condiments and legumes, and I don't buy boned meats--if I need something boned I bone it myself.

My point here is that this is the way I cook and so the decisions I've made regarding knives and sharpening is informed by this. The thing is to look at how you cook, how often, how involved; or, if the shoe fits, how you want to cook. (More than a few people on this board have gone from occasional barbecuer to cooking very often, and not just Q, and/or have gotten into competing, catering--or have become the go-to guy or gals for every family function that arises.) For those without a professional background, knives and knife care are often ignored--people just don't realize their importance--as their skills and time spent cooking increase. It often kind of hits them over the head after the fact, and they realize that this is something that not only needs consideration immediately, but would have been perhaps easier to do had they figured it out sooner. Good knives and a good understanding of their care are not insignificant factors in both the enjoyment and the execution of cooking, and are essential for safety.

That said, there are advantages to learning the proper use and care of stones (yes, they too need care). Ittakes a while to learn angles though there are guides that are helpful. Still, many don't want to deal with stones. Better then to find a system that works well rather than not as, again, sharp knives are not only more pleasurable to use, they are much, much safer. Some systems are better than others, especially in terms of composition and durability, ease of use, number of grits included, whether the angles are set and thus limited or variable and thus infinite. At the very least, see what recommendations you get here and elsewhere for stones and systems and then Google for other reviews and prices and go from there.
 
You will likely get many opinions, there's more than solution.

I have a full set of japanese waterstones, but they can be a mess and are down in the basement with the wood working tools.

In the kitchen, I reach for my Spyderco system. Quick, compact and easy, it has 2 grits of ceramic sticks. It can do some serated/scalloped knives & has another angle for scissors.

http://www.amazon.com/Spyderco-Tri-Angle-Sharpmaker-Kit...ef=pd_sbs_sg_title_1

Buy it from Amazon and they put a little in the cookie jar for Chris.

Good Luck,

Ken (from Atlanta, digging out from a stack of work)
 
That's the one I have, plus and extra, finer stone forwhen that's needed and their ceramic 'steel'. Love it. It's what I carry with me on the road.
 
I'll vote for the Lansky setups. I'm pretty inept at using a freehand stone, so I find the Lansky kit I've got to be quick and easy. Here's the kit I've got... Lansky
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joey K:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mike F.:
Joey, look here------------

search </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe...guess that searching first might be a good idea
icon_redface.gif
icon_redface.gif
(though I'm trying not be just a lurker but atcually a part of the forum) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Joey, I apologize. I was not trying to be abrupt. It happens that I too am in the market for a sharpening system. That's why I posted the search. Because I've used the search. I also understand wanting to be part of this great forum. The system I use {I'm SOOO embarased) is a hand held devise you set on the counter and pull the knife towards you across a ceramic wheel. One side for sharpening, the other side for honing. If I feel very ambitious I'll get my oil stones from the basement and have a go with those. My knives are never razer sharp but I keep them sharp enough not to be dangerous. Welcome to the forums!

Mike
 
Thanks for all the great pointers guys. I think I'm leaning towards one of those lansky systems, as money round these parts don't grow on trees.

Mike - apology accepted, I should visist the search page before blindly asking some question though.
 
I was holding back on posting this just because I didn't want to get into a huge debate over it. I just saw a short time ago, can't remember if I read it or saw it on TV about the use of oil on stones. The one thing I do remember is that it was said that you should never use oil on stones because of it clogging up the stone, and that you should only use water on a wet stone. That's all I remember about it, so be nice.
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I only ever used water just because there's no real cleanup involved.
 
Good references here! I have japanese water stones down with the woodworking equipment. For some reason I get lazy with the kitchen knives and keep them "just sharp enough". Like the Lansky and Edge Pro info!
 
If anyone wants to know more than they ever did on sharpening

http://knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/

Just remember those guys are all Japanese knife biased, big time. I found that when I went to any forum with "knife" enthusiasts/experts, all the talk centered around Japanese steel. Foodieforums is another one. They converted me.

They all like to hand sharpen their knives, but they do say the Edge Pro systems are pretty good.
 
Another item that was missed above:

Once you have your knives sharpened - KEEPING them sharp / maintenance of your cutlery is another important decision.

My wife and I were fortunate to receive a really nice set of German pro-grade knives for our wedding, over ten years ago.

I have touched-up the edges occasionally on a wet stone or a very fine diamond stone.

However, I think that what has kept them in nice shape is that they are ALWAYS kept in a knife block. When you just toss your knives into a drawer, the edges can come into contact with eachother, which can get them knicked-up.

I also learned how to use the steel that came with our set - this does not really sharpen the knives, but re-sets the thinned metal at the very cutting edge of the knife. I use this almost every time I use one of the chefs knives or meat-cutting knives.

If you properly maintain a good set, your best bet may be to have them professionally sharpened once a year / every other year (especially serrated knives), and then do the steel / light touch-ups in between.

My parents had a set of Cutco, from early '60s. I sent them back to the factory, and it only cost me about 5 bucks per knife - they were like brand-spankin' new when we got 'em back. (much cheaper than a new set).
If you've never used a real quality knife, you'll be amazed at your ability to control what you do, and to slice those onions paper-thin.
 
Good points, Ron. Maintenance is a big factor in prolonging the edges of your knives. Definitely don't throw in a drawer (nor a dishwasher either).

I, too, am a Japanese knife devotee, Joe. Have been for quite a while. Almost all my knives are Japanese save for a few significant Euros I've had for a long time. I don't use those much but they hang proudly from the knife magnet.
 
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