Salt Question (Honey Brine)


 
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Rita Y

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Chris,
Which brand of kosher salt did you use for the Honey Brine? http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/turkey2.html

1 gallon water
1 cup kosher salt (I used Diamond Crystal brand)
1 cup sourwood honey (added with molasses when brine cooled to 140?F)
1/2 cup molasses (my addition)
I didn't use Tender Quick
Other seasonings as per your recipe

I brined the 7 1/4-pound bone-in turkey breast for 12 hours (guessed at the brining time).

I found the turkey meat way undersalted with more of a watery type of juiciness than a turkey-flavored juiciness. I also could hardly (if at all) taste the honey/molasses.

I should have asked about the salt before I started. If you used Morton brand kosher salt, I probably should have used close to 1 1/2 cups of Diamond brand, according to your excellent brining section: http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brining.html .

Since the salt is such an important factor in the brining process, perhaps the good folks who post here might include the weight or at least the type and brand of salt they use?????

I'll go back and check the recipes I've posted previously?..will probably have to clarify those as well.

Any enlightenment (salt or the process I used) will be appreciated! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Rita
 
Rita
Would have had more salty flavor if you had used the Tender Quick, so add more salt (brand should not have mattered) or use the TenderQuick.
I have found that the Honey brines are not strong in flavor.
Jim
 
Hi Rita,
Sounds to me like everything went according to plan. It's not the intent of the brine to add saltiness to the turkey. My experience is, if you taste salt, it has either brined too long or the solution was too strong. I agree with Jim, the honey flavor is just a hint, not strong.
Sounds to me like you are in need of a different brine, if you were not thrilled with the results. Try adding some apple juice concentrate and vegetable or chicken stock to the brine, to increase your flavoring.
If it is salt taste your after, add more, but again, that is not the purpose of the brine itself.
As an added note, I checked the link you provided, and looking at the ingredient's photo, it appears Chris used Morton Kosher.

Jim
 
Thanks for the input everyone.

I was just wondering if the lower salinity of the brine caused (at least in part) the watery flavor /texture that I got. Is a 12-hour soak reasonable?

My intention was, naturally, not to have salty meat, but it seems to me that the importance of salt can't be overlooked in boosting the natural flavors of meat. The flavor of mine was decidedly flat.

I added the molasses in order to boost the honey/sweet flavor, which it really didn't do.

On the other hand, I've obviously underestimated the effect of the 2 tablespoons Tender Quick. Next cook, I'll keep everything the same and use some T/Q. I'm getting ready to order some now.
Rita
 
Rita --

Here's a point to ponder ( who said that?). When "cooking'" up your brine, leave the honey or molasses out until you have cooled the brine concoction. If you bring the honey to a boil along with the other ingredients, you'll break down the honey.

Wait until the brine concoction has cooled and then stir in the honey. You'll be happier with the results, this way. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
 
Rita,
Do not, underestimate the Tender Quick. I think Chris does mention, on the link you provided, that most people feel after using it, the bird takes on the taste of a ham. It does.
Each step in the brining process is important. Letting the bird drain, and air dry, is most critical, as to the end result.
The other option you have to enhance more flavor directly into the bird is injecting.
Stick with it, your on the right track. You will find a happy medium.

Jim
 
Hi Rita,

I used Morton kosher salt, as Jim Morrissey notes from the photo of the recipe ingredients.

(BTW, I did that honey-brined turkey back in the days before I understood that kosher salts were not of equal saltiness by weight.)

I do think the TenderQuick matters in terms of taste.

Also, I too have gotten "watery" turkey or chicken when brining. Maybe a shorter brining time would minimize this?

Regards,
Chris
 
Thanks, Walt...yes, I waited until the brine was down to 140* before I added the honey and molasses. Maybe I'll float a loan and add twice as much next time.

Jim....I did inject a whole turkey before Thanksgiving and was pretty happy with it except for the streaks, even after overnight standing.....but that was in an earlier post. Injecting sure saves on the amount of honey or whatever in the brine!

Chris....The constant learning process is what makes all this fun and challenging, isn't it! How many of us would do this if it weren't for the elements of surprise and suspense?

I think you're right....12 hours was probably too long a soak. I think 6 to 8 hours would have been plenty.

Thanks, Y'All! /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Rita
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I found the turkey meat way undersalted with more of a watery type of juiciness than a turkey-flavored juiciness. I also could hardly (if at all) taste the honey/molasses.

I should have asked about the salt before I started. If you used Morton brand kosher salt, I probably should have used close to 1 1/2 cups of Diamond brand <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Also, I too have gotten "watery" turkey or chicken when brining. Maybe a shorter brining time would minimize this?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Chris and Rita,
Turkey Producers recommend properly defrosting a frozen turkey, a couple of different ways. One, method aside from letting it sit in the refrigerator for a few days, is to keep the bird wrapped in it's "original plastic wrapper, being assured it has no holes or tears", place in a tub, filled with cold water and change the water every thirty minutes.
If the plain water permeates the plastic wrapping, the meat tissue, will absorb an excess amount of water, making a cooked turkey, watery in taste.

By coupling that information, with what Rita suggested, about a "watery turkey" and "not enough salt in the water, to properly engage osmosis", it is very possible that a brine, too weak in salinity, could cause this same problem.

Jim
 
Thanks, Jim.....I wish I could have said it that well! I wonder what that osmosis engagement threshhold would be.......

For the record, I used a fresh turkey breast.
Rita
 
It's my understanding, that the brine, needs to "float an egg". If it meets that requirement, you should be good to go.

Jim
 
Jim, Enough salt to float an egg is what my father and I have been using for years for turkey and salmon brines. It seems to work well and I don't recall ever measuring the salt other than floating a raw egg. Don
 
Late post. Been gone for a few days.

Rita,
I have brined/smoked 3 whole turkeys on the WSM since I got it using Shake's brine recipe at "let's cook" on the site. The only change I have made is to wait to add the honey until the temp is about 100-120. I follow it exactly other than that. I brine in the fridge for about 48 hrs
before smoking. I try to hold 250 at the dome and put the turkey on the bottom rack. Put a probe in the breast and cook to about 165 then wrap in foil/old towels to finish. My wife refuses to allow me to experiment as she says it is the best smoked turkey she ever ate. We usually split them for the freezer. Hope this helped a little. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
 
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