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Rub ingredients that don't survive the cook?


 

Drew G.

New member
I have been thinking a lot recently about rubs. I put in all these seasonings and spices and dry mustard and then rub my butt with a ton of mustard but it doesn't ever taste like mustard. I think that a large portion of the flavor in a rub gets burnt off during the cook. I think I have been wasting ingredients. Does anyone have thoughts about ingredients that are basically wasted for long cooks? I will be first and say dry mustard. Am I wrong?

Drew
 
That's something I've thought about too. I can't narrow down which ones go 'up in smoke', but it's probably the more aromatic ones. In my opinion, raw sugar or brown sugar in the rub (and a pretty generous amount of it) will do the best job of trapping the other flavors - at least most of them. But the real aromatics like oregano and such, I don't think they hang around long enough for the sugar to caramelize and be in 'trapping' mode.
 
I'm with Kevin. It's been my experience that mustard is pretty worthless for a 'pre-rub' or whatever. I can get a pretty good coating of rub on without the help of mustard. When I used it I couldn't taste it over the rub, and when I've seen others use it, they've always said it couldn't be tasted. All in all it seems like a messy waste.

Who knows, though - it could be the secret to perfect barbecue.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think I have been wasting ingredients. Does anyone have thoughts about ingredients that are basically wasted for long cooks? I will be first and say dry mustard. Am I wrong? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

dry mustard needs to be activated by water.

I try to keep track of flavors that can endure long cooks and those that can't. So far my list isn't very long, but I do know that peppercorns, chili heat, and celery seed hold up well.

one suggestion is to give your bbq a light dusting of rub near the end of your cook or sprinkle some in with your pulled pork.
 
Dry mustard indeed needs water (or another liquid) to activate its flavor. Regardless, heat destroys mustard's flavor so you'll get no flavor out of dry mustard you activate nor prepared mustard from a jar. Dry is useless in rubs. Prepared can be used to stick rub on but to me it's just a waste.

Some other ingredients don't do well in rubs when long cooking is involved: paprika, common though it is, comes immediately to mind.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">raw sugar or brown sugar in the rub (and a pretty generous amount of it) will do the best job of trapping the other flavors </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree. Sugar deadens flavors if used in quantities one sees in typical recipes. It flattens flavors by knocking down (or completely knocking off) the high flavor notes and, especially when it caramelizes, adds too much to the bottom, muddying the mid-range flavors substantially, especially herbs.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Awesome post. I'm going to do some experiments myself. I think I'm going to go with a pre and post rub plan of attack. Thanks for the replies! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

be sure to provide us with your results.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
I disagree. Sugar deadens flavors if used in quantities one sees in typical recipes. It flattens flavors by knocking down (or completely knocking off) the high flavor notes and, especially when it caramelizes, adds too much to the bottom, muddying the mid-range flavors substantially, especially herbs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if that's true then maybe that's why I think some of the lighter ingredients are not there after a cook. Because I do use sugar in rubs when I make them.
 
Perhaps. It depends on how much sugar relative to the other ingredients and what those ingreduents --or those in question-- are.

Not including salt (I make all rubs without salt) I make most rubs that include sugar about 10-12% sugar by volume. A few are higher (but not more than 20%) and many are ~ 2-5%. Several (especially those for chicken and several for beef) have none at all.

Try less sugar if your rubs contain a significant quantity. Use top quality spices (freshly ground is best) and herbs. And remove ingredients that add little to the profile -- and/or replace them with those that do.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
....And remove ingredients that add little to the profile -- and/or replace them with those that do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Besisdes Paprika, what other commonly used spices do you find not adding to the flavor? Any favorites for long cooks? Thanks.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">raw sugar or brown sugar in the rub (and a pretty generous amount of it) will do the best job of trapping the other flavors </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I disagree. Sugar deadens flavors if used in quantities one sees in typical recipes. It flattens flavors by knocking down (or completely knocking off) the high flavor notes and, especially when it caramelizes, adds too much to the bottom, muddying the mid-range flavors substantially, especially herbs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kevin you sound like a Musician. Can I call you the Maestro of Barbecue?
icon_wink.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Besisdes Paprika, what other commonly used spices do you find not adding to the flavor? Any favorites for long cooks? Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dry mustard, as noted upthread; cayenne: if only heat is required, fine -- if flavor and heat are desired there are better chile choices (Aleppo, guajillo, cascabel, aji amarillo, et al.); oregano -- sub with marjoram at 50-75% of what was called for.

In many typical rub recipes I find a lack of flavor because I find both the use of near-flavorless ingredients and a lack of ingredients. No, the ingredient list does not need to be a page long. But I am definitely not of the KISS school when it comes to rubs. To me minimal rubs are a missed opportunity. Salt-and-pepper-only or S & P with a couple or three ingredients doesn't cut it in my book -- the dogs can have my portion. Numerous flavors are created when meat is cooked - plus the addition of the flavors from smoke, if smoke is used. Though sufficient for some people's taste, to me those flavors need contrasts and complements to really make the profile sing -- to give it depth and, especially, breadth.

Rub recipes certainly need some balance: It is important that particularly distinctive ingredients not overwhelm the profile (unless of course that is the point of the rub in question) so care must be taken when including very distinctive herbs (rosemary, bay, dill, tarragon) and spices (celery, cinnamon, allspice, clove, cardamom, nutmeg, black pepper, among others) so as to disallow a skewed finish. Too, the amount of rub applied is another factor. A highly flavored rub can be too much if applied heavily to something thin like, say, back ribs -- yet be perfect if applied moderately or lightly.

For chiles, I tend to use those I just mentioned. For herbs, I especially like thyme or thyme with marjoram, or thyme with sage and/or bay. For spices, I am quite fond of the 'sweet' spices (allspice, clove, cardamom, cinnamon, mace, nutmeg), coriander, cumin, celery, and some of the exotics like amchur and sumac. For aromatics, garlic, onion and ginger, ground coffee. Much depends on what type of meat I am cooking and the type of cooking process I will be using, but these ingredients find their way into many of my rubs.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Kevin you sound like a Musician. Can I call you the Maestro of Barbecue? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can call me whatever you want.
icon_biggrin.gif


I do tend to think of flavors and flavor profiles in those terms though.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Kevin you sound like a Musician. Can I call you the Maestro of Barbecue? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You can call me whatever you want.
icon_biggrin.gif


I do tend to think of flavors and flavor profiles in those terms though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a Musician myself it makes sense to me.
 

 

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