Royal Oak Charcoal Pellet
- Thread starter EricV.
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LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Some of these claims seemed counter intuitive to me. First, most quality pellet grills use pretty precise PID controllers. So, I fail to see how the different pellets could or would "over come" the controller. If they burn hotter (as I no doubt they do in theory), then why doesn't the grill simply regulate the burn with fuel deliver, and fan control if used, to regulate the temps?
If you're using a grill that is very simple with only a timer function (as the early grills were), sure I could see them running hotter as those grills simply functioned by delivery time not temp. With simple auger on time doing the regulations with no temp feedback.
I am still scratching my head on this one.
Re, charcoal "flavor" MEH. I guess if you're running lump in a temp regulated komado style cooker you might get some "flavor" but if you're going flat out for say searing a piece of tuna steak or something like that. Never tasted much of anything from that on my kettle using lump.
So, I am kinda calling "some" BS.
Now could they potentially be more fuel efficient? Sure. There is more BTU there than wood pellets have. So fewer pellets = same heat output. Moisture resistance? OK I'll agree to a point there as well.
Not gonna run out and stick them in my cookers though since they would defeat every reason I have my cookers.
If you're using a grill that is very simple with only a timer function (as the early grills were), sure I could see them running hotter as those grills simply functioned by delivery time not temp. With simple auger on time doing the regulations with no temp feedback.
I am still scratching my head on this one.
Re, charcoal "flavor" MEH. I guess if you're running lump in a temp regulated komado style cooker you might get some "flavor" but if you're going flat out for say searing a piece of tuna steak or something like that. Never tasted much of anything from that on my kettle using lump.
So, I am kinda calling "some" BS.
Now could they potentially be more fuel efficient? Sure. There is more BTU there than wood pellets have. So fewer pellets = same heat output. Moisture resistance? OK I'll agree to a point there as well.
Not gonna run out and stick them in my cookers though since they would defeat every reason I have my cookers.
Ed P
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I can verify this firsthand, Larry. They do run a good 20-30F hotter in my MM (edited for clarity: on P3 setting), as opposed to Sam's or Costco pellets. They do create a nice smoke flavor, too. The temp difference is very noticeable.
The controllers are programmed with safety in mind. Regardless of the temp setting, they will not feed below or above a certain given rate, so if there is ever an issue with a probe they won't keep driving pellets lower or higher chasing after an unobtainable set value.
EDIT: One of the reasons charcoal gets a bad rap is because it has to burn twice...once, as wood, without oxygen, once again, as charcoal, with oxygen. Pellets, on the other hand, are compressed wood fibers that only burn once, in the presence of oxygen. Think in terms of a wood-fired forge...the coals are what brings the heat, not the initial wood burning.
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LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Hmmm. I wonder if a mix might be good then. Interesting that you find they create a nice flavor. Now it's making me curious. IDK if I would want to use them only as higher temps are really not what I am generally after. But, perhaps a mix will give a little of everything
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Olympian
What is the bad rap? Explain please.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
I don't want to spill over into the whole climate change thing...but 1) charcoal comes from wood, like trees and wood scrap, that causes deforestation if not managed properly, and poorer countries don't manage deforestation very well; 2.) trees take in CO2 and give off oxygen...we need more trees, IOW. 3.) Burning anything creates CO2, which is a greenhouse gas, but we must burn the wood once to create charcoal; and 3.) The charcoal that is created from burning wood is then burned yet again to produce heat, creating even more CO2.
Please don't shoot me, I'm only the messenger.
Brett-EDH
TVWBB Olympian
Not going to argue. All fuels heat the environment and are “bad.” Just eat raw vegetables.
I’m here for a good time. Not a long time.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
It's a dilly of a pickle, that's for sure.
Ed P
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I did try a mix (a 3:1, I think...all that info was stored in the PiFire and I have yet to resurrect it because the OEM controller is working so well). I only mixed up a 6lb batch and ended up picking out the charcoal pellets out of what was left of that batch. It's like adding a performance enhancer to something that doesn't need it, in my view, although at that ratio you couldn't tell it was even there. I like the flavor, straight, though, but I like the flavor from Sam's/Costco, too. I bought a 20# bag for $10 so if you find it on clearance, maybe give it a try...
I can get a stable 165-175F measured at the grate on P3 with S/C. RO struggles to get below 190-210F. It tends to overshoot temps in the controllable range, more so than S/C.
LMichaels
TVWBB 2-Star Olympian
Yeah, I have learned how to manipulate that "P" setting. LIke you I get a nice stable smoke output and decent temp range that settles in between 165 and 180. I've now learned if I want to get smoke at hotter temp I set it up to P1 and get low 200s 205-220 and still with good steadly nice smoke. Like yours my OEM controller is now working like a champ since my buddy did that very minor mod of doing a good solder job on the power outputs. Honestly the thing runs like a rock. Other night I did a very nice ribeye for my b/day. Did, P1 high smoke until it hit 115. Tented it, cranked the MM to 485 and got a gorgeous crust on that steak. It could not be better unless it had Bluetooth and WIFI. I am still trying to find a controller that can do that to it.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
I found a couple of graphs!
This is Sam's/Costco mixed.
[ the flatline/dip is when the battery died on the Signals and me running around the house trying to find the #$%÷$# 12v dedicated charger, then reversing the probes. Stupid thing won't charge on 5v. I now have the probes color-coded top to bottom as red-yellow-green instead of red-green-yellow ]
This is with the RO pellets.
This is Sam's/Costco mixed.
[ the flatline/dip is when the battery died on the Signals and me running around the house trying to find the #$%÷$# 12v dedicated charger, then reversing the probes. Stupid thing won't charge on 5v. I now have the probes color-coded top to bottom as red-yellow-green instead of red-green-yellow ]
This is with the RO pellets.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
Well, I kind of have a bitter taste in my mouth about controlling a grill remotely...if you remember, I had that incident where I updated the PiFire and the grill started up...with the cover on! No harm, no foul, I was sitting inside watching it out of the window when I saw that it was rolling coal from under the cover. Definitely made me re-think the whole remote control idea, though, but I'm not that far away from the grill...if the grill was in a detached garage I might feel differently. And I've used a Heatermeter on the BGE almost since we bought it, but I don't worry about a ceramic grill like I do the others. Other than the grill being in the garage, I think you have everything you need with the new Smoke.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
You can do the logging with the Smoke Gateway, too, If you like. Here's one from our wall oven.
EDIT: I do like to keep a cook log and notes and it's so handy to refer back to the data when needed.
EDIT2: No PID on the oven, just a bang-bang (off-on) controller. Works just as well.
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TimA
TVWBB All-Star
I tried the Royal Oak pellets back when I first bought my Smokefire and didn’t recall being overly impressed, and certainly they didn’t provide a charcoal flavor.
I did pick up a bag last month and going to try again. I seem to recall a roughly 50/50 blend with my standard GMG pellets was pretty darn good.
I did pick up a bag last month and going to try again. I seem to recall a roughly 50/50 blend with my standard GMG pellets was pretty darn good.
Ed P
TVWBB Honor Circle
Yessir! The Smoke Gateway bridges the Smoke to your home Wi-Fi and from there it goes to the cloud. That Smoke graph was from 2021. It's the app that does the heavy lifting. There is a ton of things you can do with the app, even more with the TW Studio (which I haven't messed with).
I posted that graph because I wanted to illustrate how a non-PID controller works. PID was created because with a bang-bang controller there is a swing (or deadband, or hysteresis) and it's not an ideal way to do things in certain situations...but a pellet grill isn't one of those situations, because of the laggy response of feeding pellets and having to wait for them to burn. PID is purely a marketing thing for pellet grills (my opinion, of course).
EDIT: The "P" settings bypass the PID altogether. As defined by Traeger, who developed the pellet grill, it's simply an on-off arrangement, with a 15-second on time followed by a variety of off times. From the Traeger website:
Grills have 5 P-Settings: P-1 to P-5, the default setting being P-2. The lower the P-Setting, the shorter the pause; the higher the P-Setting, the longer the pause. A lower P-Setting is ideal for low outside temperatures because it will feed pellets faster, preventing the flame from going out. A higher P-Setting is good for high outside temperatures to prevent the grill from getting too hot.
| Grills with early digital elite controllers can go up to P-9. Factory P-Setting on Scouts is P-4 | ||
|---|---|---|
| SETTING | AUGER RUNNING TIME | AUGER PAUSE TIME |
| P-0 | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 45 seconds (auger off) |
| P-1 | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 55 seconds |
| P-2 (factory default | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 65 seconds |
| P-3 | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 75 seconds |
| P-4 | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 85 seconds |
| P-5 | 15 seconds auger on | Pause 95 seconds |
No, not charcoal flavor...smoke flavor. Beats the heck out of me, but it's there. I notice it more the day after with leftovers, but it's there (at least, I can taste it. YMMV.)
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Rich Dahl
R.I.P. 7/21/2024
I have a few bags of Royal Oak Charcoal Pellets I got for $2.00 a bag on a close out at Walmart. I tried them in my camp chef without a PID controller about a year ago.
Really didn't notice a lot of difference, but I did notice a much greater swing on the temperature.
The flavor profile had just a hint of the charcoal smoke flavor.
My controller seems to be getting flaky after about 200+ cooks by running a lot hotter than the set temperature.
So, when Amazon had their super sale earlier this month, I picked up a CC gen 2 PID controller for $50.
The same exact one CC sells for $150. I'll try the Royal Oak again when I get it installed.
Really didn't notice a lot of difference, but I did notice a much greater swing on the temperature.
The flavor profile had just a hint of the charcoal smoke flavor.
My controller seems to be getting flaky after about 200+ cooks by running a lot hotter than the set temperature.
So, when Amazon had their super sale earlier this month, I picked up a CC gen 2 PID controller for $50.
The same exact one CC sells for $150. I'll try the Royal Oak again when I get it installed.