Just put on some ribs to cook for the day so I've got some time to relax and think BBQ. Here's a question. Once or twice a year I go out on the web and look at high-end pits, the kind with the offset fireboxes made by David Klose, Pitts and Spitts, etc. Even the small ones for "family" use are $1500-$2200, and they look beautiful; most of my cookbooks swear by them. But as I was ogling them recently I realized I had no idea why (or if) they are better than a WSM. Obviously the big ones cook more stuff and are designed for competition, but the smaller ones are only marginally bigger than a weber. There must be some advantage or people wouldn't pay 10x the weber. So what is it? Is rectangular better? Is the heat/smoke distribution better without the water pan? Is it better to cook with wood than charcoal? Is it easier to lift the lid without setting off major changes in the fire? I know there are cheap versions of this kind of smoker that sell for less than the weber; but i'm interested in the high-end stuff. (And I'm not putting down the wsm at all, not looking for reasons that the wsm is the best smoker in the world. I love my subaru to the end of the world but would admit that a volvo or audi is a better car...)
question about bbq pits with offset fire boxes....
- Thread starter Nate L
- Start date
Larry Wolfe
Closed Account
The biggest and honestly only difference In My Opinion is the 'Wow Factor', THAT'S IT. I have owned a Gator pit and it was a great, well built pit and made fantastic BBQ. I also have friends that own Klose Pits, Langs, etc., and the BBQ tastes no different than it does when cooked in a WSM or other charcoal cooker.
With that said, there is a huge difference cooking on the two different style cookers, but the end product should be the same....period.
With that said, there is a huge difference cooking on the two different style cookers, but the end product should be the same....period.
Chris Nielsen
TVWBB Member
I have to agree with Larry, it's all about the meat that comes off and at the end of the day, it should taste the same no matter which of the two it comes off of.
Having said that, in my limited experience I couldn't imagine an easier cooker to maintain heat on and still fit enough meat to feed a small army than the WSM. An offset cooker seems like more work for the same end result.
Having said that, in my limited experience I couldn't imagine an easier cooker to maintain heat on and still fit enough meat to feed a small army than the WSM. An offset cooker seems like more work for the same end result.
Dave Hutson
TVWBB Super Fan
Well, I own both. The .25" to .375" steel on a quality offset, will last 75 years. You are right though, for what you can buy a 30" long offset for, you could buy 3-4 WSM's and be ahead of the game for volume cooking! As mentioned prior, the WOW factor is really the only difference. Woodman
Well, I'm not sure if I'm pleased or disappointed by the consensus. I kind of liked the notion that I was looking at the Ferraris of pits, something to aspire to. But I guess I'm overall glad that my little old wsm can go up against the big boys...
thanks for all the responses.
thanks for all the responses.
Larry Wolfe
Closed Account
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nate L:
Well, I'm not sure if I'm pleased or disappointed by the consensus. I kind of liked the notion that I was looking at the Ferraris of pits, something to aspire to. But I guess I'm overall glad that my little old wsm can go up against the big boys...
thanks for all the responses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are looking at the Ferraris of pits when looking at a custom made offset. But the bottom line is a Ferrari will get you from point A to point B, the same as a Hyundai will.....but more people will ahhh over the Ferrari...
The same goes for a Custom Offset vs. a WSM cooking BBQ, until they taste the food and realize they both create equally good BBQ.
Well, I'm not sure if I'm pleased or disappointed by the consensus. I kind of liked the notion that I was looking at the Ferraris of pits, something to aspire to. But I guess I'm overall glad that my little old wsm can go up against the big boys...
thanks for all the responses. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You are looking at the Ferraris of pits when looking at a custom made offset. But the bottom line is a Ferrari will get you from point A to point B, the same as a Hyundai will.....but more people will ahhh over the Ferrari...
The same goes for a Custom Offset vs. a WSM cooking BBQ, until they taste the food and realize they both create equally good BBQ.
George Curtis
TVWBB Olympian
go to contest and you will see an ocean of wsm's . nuff for me. plus offsets can be fuel hogs.
Larry Wolfe
Closed Account
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by george curtis:
go to contest and you will see an ocean of wsm's . nuff for me. plus offsets can be fuel hogs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And they will keep you UP ALL NIGHT feeding a log at least every hour.....
go to contest and you will see an ocean of wsm's . nuff for me. plus offsets can be fuel hogs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And they will keep you UP ALL NIGHT feeding a log at least every hour.....
Tom_M
TVWBB Super Fan
Let me start off by saying that I really like my WSM and my UDS for the ease of use but after about 2 years of using the WSM and about 1 year with the drum I've come to a conclusion. I firmly believe that I cook a better brisket on my cheap Chargriller offset. My method on the CG is to place the brisket as far as possible from the firebox with the point end closest to the firebox.I think the direct heat on the point helps it cook while "protecting" the flat from the direct heat at the same time. My son came over Memorial weekend to watch the races and he commented on the brisket I cooked that weekend that the latest ones just didn't seem to be as good as what I used to make.That got me to thinking that the only difference was that I've hardly used the CG the last two years, so I fired it up yesterday and cooked a 12 lb'er like I used to with Kingsford and oak wood. Although it was very labor intensive I have to admit I enjoyed tending the fire and the meat tasted a lot more like what they used to taste like.
Obviously this is one mans opinion and I may be completely off my rocker.
Obviously this is one mans opinion and I may be completely off my rocker.
Tony Catencamp
TVWBB Member
I too was interested in offsets, so I purchased a New Braunfels off of craigslist. I added a bunch of modifications I learned from the Smokering and I cooked on it once. Same end product, but a lot more babysitting. I guess if I want to tend a fire, I will light one in the fire pit. To each their own. Sold it on craigslist.
The style of smoker that still intrigues me is a Stumps or a Superior smoker. The gravity feed and heavily insulation are awfully cool features, not to mention much larger cooking capacity. Someday maybe.
I still love my WSM's and I'm sure I will like my Bandit conversion, once I get to assembling it.
The style of smoker that still intrigues me is a Stumps or a Superior smoker. The gravity feed and heavily insulation are awfully cool features, not to mention much larger cooking capacity. Someday maybe.
I still love my WSM's and I'm sure I will like my Bandit conversion, once I get to assembling it.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony Catencamp:
The style of smoker that still intrigues me is a Stumps or a Superior smoker. The gravity feed and heavily insulation are awfully cool features, not to mention much larger cooking capacity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
just checked out superior's website...wow! those are impressive!
The style of smoker that still intrigues me is a Stumps or a Superior smoker. The gravity feed and heavily insulation are awfully cool features, not to mention much larger cooking capacity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
just checked out superior's website...wow! those are impressive!
dave caston
TVWBB Fan
I at one time had 2 off set bbq pits, they are heavy to haul around when I did comps. with them and like it was stated it will use a lot of fuel and keep up up all night and by the way I never won or placed with it. Food was good but a lot of work. I now have 3 WSM very easy to haul and not much work to keep them going and by the way, 1st time out with the WSM I placed 6th place for PP in a comp. did the WSM have anything to do with it or was it just my time? any way I gave one of the offset pits away and use the other one to hold my bbq stuff at home.
russell swift
TVWBB Super Fan
I've been pondering the same idea lately....I have a WSM and a 22.5" kettle. I have learned how to smoke/cook dinner meats in the kettle when its just for my wife and myself...ala ribs, steaks, burgers, chicken, etc....less time-consuming cooks. My WSM can only fit 4 racks of baby backs, and I always get requests to cook more, which prompted me to learn how to cook ribs in the kettle (more surface area). Now when it comes to pork butts I always use the WSM, but can only cook 4-6.
What gets me is when we host bigger events, such as tailgating for football games, company picnics, customer appreciation events, etc. and all I can cook is up to 8 slabs of ribs or 5 butts. Maybe I should just buy the new WSM and add another 22.5" kettle to the fleet. I would love to have a trailer cooker, but is it worth paying the extra $$ for a 'casual' chef who would only need the additional capacity 6 times a year?
What gets me is when we host bigger events, such as tailgating for football games, company picnics, customer appreciation events, etc. and all I can cook is up to 8 slabs of ribs or 5 butts. Maybe I should just buy the new WSM and add another 22.5" kettle to the fleet. I would love to have a trailer cooker, but is it worth paying the extra $$ for a 'casual' chef who would only need the additional capacity 6 times a year?
I'm all about the food but maybe it's time to show some appreciation for what Larry calls the "WOW effect." Really, how cool would it be to roll up to a company picnic or tailgate hauling some decked out pit? I'm sure the sensible advice is to get the 22.5" and make your life easy. (I love my WSM!) But isn't there a cultural piece to BBQ? Isn't there something to hanging out by some baroque and alien metal contraption and telling tall tales? I used to live in North Carolina and loved hanging out with the "masters." Keep your webers for daily use, but flaunt it a bit once or twice a year....
(tongue partially in cheek, with a bit of envy for those who can afford the big rigs and/or have spouses who support such luxuries...)
(tongue partially in cheek, with a bit of envy for those who can afford the big rigs and/or have spouses who support such luxuries...)
Aloha... as Larry and others have said, the end results is what matters. There are variables in using the different styles of smokers. I have a Gator offset, several WSMs, several kettles, 3 large rotisseries for whole hogs, a La Caja China plus 2 (2.5' x 5') large grills.
For myself it is how many people you intend to feed and what are your skill levels with whatever equipment you use. I can smoke or grill for a large crowd at a block party, for my immediate family or just for wife and I with some left to freeze for later.
Aloha no,
joe abad
For myself it is how many people you intend to feed and what are your skill levels with whatever equipment you use. I can smoke or grill for a large crowd at a block party, for my immediate family or just for wife and I with some left to freeze for later.
Aloha no,
joe abad
Larry Wolfe
Closed Account
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by russell swift:
My WSM can only fit 4 racks of baby backs, and I always get requests to cook more, which prompted me to learn how to cook ribs in the kettle (more surface area). Now when it comes to pork butts I always use the WSM, but can only cook 4-6.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Russell, buy a couple rib racks, it will amaze you at how many racks of ribs you can get on a 18.5" WSM.
12 racks of Loin Backs - 6 racks on each grate
8 racks of Spares - 4 racks cut in half on each grate.
You could get more in the WSM in each case.
My WSM can only fit 4 racks of baby backs, and I always get requests to cook more, which prompted me to learn how to cook ribs in the kettle (more surface area). Now when it comes to pork butts I always use the WSM, but can only cook 4-6.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Russell, buy a couple rib racks, it will amaze you at how many racks of ribs you can get on a 18.5" WSM.
12 racks of Loin Backs - 6 racks on each grate
8 racks of Spares - 4 racks cut in half on each grate.
You could get more in the WSM in each case.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Meneou:
Let me start off by saying that I really like my WSM and my UDS for the ease of use but after about 2 years of using the WSM and about 1 year with the drum I've come to a conclusion. I firmly believe that I cook a better brisket on my cheap Chargriller offset. My method on the CG is to place the brisket as far as possible from the firebox with the point end closest to the firebox.I think the direct heat on the point helps it cook while "protecting" the flat from the direct heat at the same time. My son came over Memorial weekend to watch the races and he commented on the brisket I cooked that weekend that the latest ones just didn't seem to be as good as what I used to make.That got me to thinking that the only difference was that I've hardly used the CG the last two years, so I fired it up yesterday and cooked a 12 lb'er like I used to with Kingsford and oak wood. Although it was very labor intensive I have to admit I enjoyed tending the fire and the meat tasted a lot more like what they used to taste like.
Obviously this is one mans opinion and I may be completely off my rocker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
your not crazy..i feel the same way in regards to my my old NB Black Diamond and the WSM
WSM is great for pork butts because it runs all night with out any really fire tending but the q on my offset in regards to taste and color always seems better to me on my offset ..
Let me start off by saying that I really like my WSM and my UDS for the ease of use but after about 2 years of using the WSM and about 1 year with the drum I've come to a conclusion. I firmly believe that I cook a better brisket on my cheap Chargriller offset. My method on the CG is to place the brisket as far as possible from the firebox with the point end closest to the firebox.I think the direct heat on the point helps it cook while "protecting" the flat from the direct heat at the same time. My son came over Memorial weekend to watch the races and he commented on the brisket I cooked that weekend that the latest ones just didn't seem to be as good as what I used to make.That got me to thinking that the only difference was that I've hardly used the CG the last two years, so I fired it up yesterday and cooked a 12 lb'er like I used to with Kingsford and oak wood. Although it was very labor intensive I have to admit I enjoyed tending the fire and the meat tasted a lot more like what they used to taste like.
Obviously this is one mans opinion and I may be completely off my rocker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
your not crazy..i feel the same way in regards to my my old NB Black Diamond and the WSM
WSM is great for pork butts because it runs all night with out any really fire tending but the q on my offset in regards to taste and color always seems better to me on my offset ..
russell swift
TVWBB Super Fan
Larry, do you recommend any rib racks that hold 6? I've got a decent rib rack almost identical to yours that I bought on clearance from Williams Sonoma years ago and wish I bought multiple racks. Also never really thought about putting ribs on the lower grate--any changes to the overall cook with both grates slammed full?
Dale Perry
TVWBB Guru
I have had several pits and liked them all. I must say that my Spicewine is one awesome smoker. I can cook in 7-10 hrs what it used to take me 15-18 hrs on any other smoker I have owned. Now I get up in the morning and cook for supper what used to take me all night. That to me is worth the extra money. I had fun cooking all nighters but i do enjoy my sleep. And since i am a morning person, the SW works better for me.
Still for the $ the WSM is the best deal i have ever seen but I do like the end product better from my SW. I hate to say that, but it is the truth. Maybe i have just finally learned how to cook?
Still for the $ the WSM is the best deal i have ever seen but I do like the end product better from my SW. I hate to say that, but it is the truth. Maybe i have just finally learned how to cook?
Dave Hutson
TVWBB Super Fan
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nate L:
I'm all about the food but maybe it's time to show some appreciation for what Larry calls the "WOW effect." Really, how cool would it be to roll up to a company picnic or tailgate hauling some decked out pit? I'm sure the sensible advice is to get the 22.5" and make your life easy. (I love my WSM!) But isn't there a cultural piece to BBQ? Isn't there something to hanging out by some baroque and alien metal contraption and telling tall tales? I used to live in North Carolina and loved hanging out with the "masters." Keep your webers for daily use, but flaunt it a bit once or twice a year....
(tongue partially in cheek, with a bit of envy for those who can afford the big rigs and/or have spouses who support such luxuries...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
BINGO!!!! That exactly what people love about my catering their event. I bring the big old pit over the night before, and sit there tending her all night. The smell, the sight, the lore, all contribute to the "romance" of BBQ as I call it. Also, it is a MUST for cooking for larger groups. ALso, mine has dual 60K btu burners on the nose for cooking beans, or deep frying and a 7 shelf upright for keeping up to 14 large foil pans warm. For the regular backyard cook, it is WAY too much, but I had a smaller Klose originally, and kinda enjoy the whole "stick burner" thing. Offsets are HUGE in Tejas!!
I'm all about the food but maybe it's time to show some appreciation for what Larry calls the "WOW effect." Really, how cool would it be to roll up to a company picnic or tailgate hauling some decked out pit? I'm sure the sensible advice is to get the 22.5" and make your life easy. (I love my WSM!) But isn't there a cultural piece to BBQ? Isn't there something to hanging out by some baroque and alien metal contraption and telling tall tales? I used to live in North Carolina and loved hanging out with the "masters." Keep your webers for daily use, but flaunt it a bit once or twice a year....
(tongue partially in cheek, with a bit of envy for those who can afford the big rigs and/or have spouses who support such luxuries...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
BINGO!!!! That exactly what people love about my catering their event. I bring the big old pit over the night before, and sit there tending her all night. The smell, the sight, the lore, all contribute to the "romance" of BBQ as I call it. Also, it is a MUST for cooking for larger groups. ALso, mine has dual 60K btu burners on the nose for cooking beans, or deep frying and a 7 shelf upright for keeping up to 14 large foil pans warm. For the regular backyard cook, it is WAY too much, but I had a smaller Klose originally, and kinda enjoy the whole "stick burner" thing. Offsets are HUGE in Tejas!!