Pastrami - Too Cold to Cure???


 
J

JimT

TVWBB Pro
I've been curing a "pastrami" since Tuesday evening, hoping to smoke it Saturday morning. I've just read today, a couple of things that lead me to believe my refrigerator may be too cold! As near as I can measure, it's at 35 degrees. Most of what I have read indicates at least 38, preferably in the 40 to 45 degree range.

Is there hope?

Can I salvage this project?

Help!!!!

JimT
 
Check the temp of the meat, not the fridge. If the meat is in fact 35 then I do not suggest planning a Saturday a.m. smoke. Meats generally don't take cures well at < 37F (though some say < 36F). Above 40F is too high, imo; 38-40 is optimum. To salvage you'll need to raise the temp of your fridge and extend your time.
 
Kevin,

I checked the meat in several places with my Thermapen. It was kind of "bouncing" between 37 and 38, so I guess I'm on the ragged edge.

Is there a way to determine, before smoking, if the meat has cured enough?

Thanks,

JimT
 
It firms during curing. It will feel firm when pressed. This can be a little difficult to determine if you're not used to it, but even if you are it can be questionable, especially with thick brisket.

You can make a small incision if you wish and check for color.

My suggestion would be to bump the fridge temp up slightly or, if that's not possible, pull the brisket out of the fridge periodically and leave it on the counter to warm to 40, then return it to the fridge; repeat as often as you can. You can simply decide to postpose smoking till later on Saturday or till Sunday morning instead, or you can check the brisket (by making a small incision in the thickest part) on Saturday morning and go from there, smoking if it looks cured, delaying if not.
 
Thanks Kevin, I did just that (set it on the counter) when I got home from work today, stuck it back the the fridge for a while, then pulled it back out just after I wrote my last post. It's about time to put it back in, and getting near my bed time.

You mentioned checking color, and seeing if it "looks cured." Could you elaborate just a little? I'm in no hurry to smoke it, and can very well wait untill Sunday if necessary.

I'll check the board in the morning.

Yawn,

JimT
 
It will sometimes look grey. This depends on the specific piece though (it doesn't always occur) but if it has it will be obvious. If it hasn't look for a difference in the red tone between the outer portion and dead center.

You can also stick your (very clean) finger into the incision and feel for softness in the center. If in doubt, go for Sunday.
 
Not even close!

I checked the meat temp this morning after it had been in the frige all night. It was 33 degrees. I think yesterday it may still have been a little warm from sitting out on the counter. Looking at the incision I made, I could see a definite dark coloration for about the first 3/16 of an inch, but the rest was still a bright red.

I'll be able to do the frige/counter routine during the day today, but will have to frige it again overnight. Sunday, I can again do the frige/counter routine. The weather forcast for Sunday night and Monday is such that I may be able to put it outside (low 34, high Monday 42.)

I guess the question now becomes, is this too long to have been in the cure? Keep in mind I started this Tuesday evening. Better yet, will it ever fully cure at all?

Thanks for the help,

JimT
 
The answer to the first question is no. You may wish to extend the soaking time though. The answer to the second question is, likely, yes. It will depend on temps and time.

Is your meat in a Ziploc? Did you notice exuded liquid after the first several hours-day? Has that liquid re-absorbed at all?

Worse case scenario: Do what you can with temps and milk the time. Extend the cold water soak. Smoke as usual then, if you wish (I do this as a matter of course), move the meat onto a rack in a pan of a half-inch of water, tent foil over the meat and tightly seal to the pan edges (remember to stick in your probe before sealing), and either raise your cooker temp or stick in a 300 oven for a steam finish. Steam to the very low 180s, check tenderness and go a little longer if need be. (Don't overdo here, you still want to be able to slice rather thinly, imo.)

A steam finish will give your pastrami more of a deli finish (some delis anyway), will make it more tender and, if the center didn't cure well, will likely make the difference between the center section and cured sections more palatable. (Worth a shot anyway.)
 
>Is your meat in a Ziploc?

Yes. But I did notice about a 2 inch tear just below the "crimp" today. The bag is big enough that I've just been folding it back underneath the meat.

>Did you notice exuded liquid after the first several hours-day?

A little bit. Not "pooled" as Chris describes, more like "droplets" up to 1/4 inch in diameter.

>Has that liquid re-absorbed at all?

Yes, what little there was.

Kevin,

If there is something in my answers that you find troubling, please let me know. Otherwise, I'll keep working it for a day or so, then consider your "worst case scenario" directions.

I'll keep you and the board posted.

Thanks again,

JimT
 
I corn my beef for 5 - 7 days so Tuesday to now is not too long, some people say you should brine anything from 7 days upto 3 weeks, but I find that needs washing to remove the excess salt if you brine that long, so why go that far if you like a less salty corned beef.

You could do with getting the temperature up a bit, I would even think about putting it in a cooler instead of the fridge, if your fridge temps are too low and you don't want to mess about with turning the thermostat up and down all the time. as some others have said you want to be in the 38° - 40° zone.

I corn my beef in the cooler in all but the hotest weather, I find that is is simpler to either add or remove ice and water to get the temp in the zone and to then maintain it there, you might want to think about trying it that way next time!

Smoke your corned beef for about 45 minutes to an hour per pound. Keep this part in mind when selecting a brisket. A ten-pound brisket can take 8 - 10 hours to smoke.

Once the meat has reached an internal temperature of 165 degrees it is done. You do not need to smoke pastrami as long as you would a regular brisket.

The long brining time will make the meat tender.

Homemade pastrami is one of those things you need to be careful with. Because you cure the meat for a long period of time the risk of spoilage is high compared with other smoked foods.

Make absolutely certain that everything, including your hands, that come in contact with the meat is very clean.

Make careful observations of the meat during the whole process. And make sure that every inch of the meat reaches 165 degrees before you remove it from the smoker.

Other than that, don't forget to take a picture or two of it and post them when you have them.
 
Troubling? Well, yes and no. I'd say I'm a bit concerned with the lack of exuded liquid (I have seen this occur with and without ill effect) and wonder if the very cold meat siezes, in a way, and, combined with the slower movement of nearer-to-freezing interior moisture, prevents an adequate exchange. I do not know the answer to this. I have run into this problem before and discovered that I could, as you say, salvage the meat by the method posted upthread, but I do not know if it always works nor if there is a particular amount of time from the beginning that once passed, renders one's efforts useless if one hasn't started the process soon enough. I've only dealt with this situation a few times and, I believe, only once with brisket. Your results will, I hope, lead us both a bit closer to an answer.

So I have a better idea of what your working with: What size is the brisket (weight pre-trim, rough dimesions including thickness)? A flat only, right? How much trimming did you do of the fatcap? Did you follow Chris's recipe or another? If Chris's, did you make the full amount of cure? If another, what recipe?

Note that there are no food safety concerns if the cure didn't take all the way through if cooked to an adequate internal (which one must anyway if it's going to be edible). Do what yoou can and see how it goes.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:

So I have a better idea of what your working with: What size is the brisket (weight pre-trim, rough dimesions including thickness)? A flat only, right? How much trimming did you do of the fatcap? Did you follow Chris's recipe or another? If Chris's, did you make the full amount of cure? If another, what recipe?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. The sheet pan measures about 10 by 15 inches. The flat weighed about 4.75 pounds after trimming, and averages about 1.5 inches thick. The fat cap was trimmed to 1/8 inch or less, and was scored down to the meat at about 1/2 inch intervals.

I followed Chris' recipe, the full amount, and used it all. Since the flat is quite small, I couldn't get all of it to "stick," but it was loaded up pretty well.

For what it's worth, it does still seem to be drawing some moisture out. Still no "pools", but the exterior is more of a "paste" than it was yesterday.


Chris,

Thanks for your input. Very informative and helpful. I'll definitely use your cooler technique the next time around!!


JimT
 
It's done!!!

I decided if hadn't cured in a week, especially with all that special handling, it wasn't going to at all. Tuesday was the night! I made another little incision to peek at the color, and thought to myself, no way. The meat still seemed to be dark for the first 1/4 inch, then quite red towards the middle. Oh well, let's do it.

After a really good rinse and scrub, I gave it three 30 minute soaks in cold water, applied the rub, and on to the smoker it went. There was a little problem along the way; I hadn't accounted for the cold and windy conditions, and shorted myself on fuel. By the time I got the smoker recovered from the temp drop, and the pastrami up to the "low" end of done, it was already my bed time!

In keeping with the tradition of this "non-conforming" pastrami, I decided to skip the step of letting it rest in towels/cooler for a couple of hours, and simply let it rest wrapped in foil on the counter while I finished watching my Detroit Tigers lose! What the heck, there didn't seem to be much "juice" in it anyway.

When I got home from work on Wednesday, I pulled that bad boy out of the frige and sliced into it, expecting the worst. Surprise, surprise!!! It looked good, smelled good and tasted good. Took a pastrami sandwich to work today for lunch, and I'm not sick yet!
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Thanks Kevin, for walking me through this. And thank you Chris for your insight as well. I'm looking forward to the next one with the knowledge I've gained.

Oh, and Chris, here's that picture you requested!
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JimT
 
Mmmm looking good, did you go with a fresh ground pepper rub?

Darn cold weather conditions, I was willing to cook in the low teens, but the kids won't sovel the snow clear to get me out to the cooker on those really cold days. Why build kids then have to clear your own way to the cooker.
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You're welcome, try it injected next time as Dave says, the main thing is keep trying till you feel you have it right, then write down the recipe and ignore it, just keep doing what feels ok from then on, you can still experiment, after all, they do call it all bbq!

I am going to have to start another one, I am down to the last 1lb of the last one.
 
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