Not Again!!!!!


 

Erik G

TVWBB Pro
$1.09/lb, I am thinking it's time to make some pulled pork this weekend. We invite family and friends for Sunday.

My preparations start at 4pm. I remove two butts from the refrigerator (both weighing a combined 13.99 lbs) and cut off the fat caps. I spread some mustard over the butts.

At around 8:15pm, I start preparing the wsm. I load the charcoal ring almost to the top with unlit rancher charcoal briquettes and around 7 chunks of cherry and oak wood. I light 20 kingsford charcoal briquettes using the minion method. I rub the butts using an altered version of chris lilly's six-time world championship pork shoulder injection and rub. After the 20 briquettes were fully engulfed, I threw them on top of the unlit charcoal and wood. I assembled the wsm with the foiled original water pan and a foiled 14 inch (36 stamped) tera cotta saucer sitting inside it. I placed the two butts on the top rack and put in a temperature probe inside the small butt. Everything was fully assembled and cooking at exactly 8:50pm.

THe meat temp started at 61 degrees. After the lid temp. reached 200 degrees (at around 9:00pm), I closed all three bottom vents to 20% open. The temp. read an exact 250 at the lid at around 9:45pm. At around 10:45pm, the meat temp. was a whopping 131 degrees and at the lid it was 245. At 12am, the meat temp. was at 141 degrees and at the lid it was 270. At this time, I decided to close all the bottom vents. At 2am, the meat temp. was at 161 degrees and at the lid it was 255. At 3am, the meat temp. was at 181 degrees and at the lid it was 250. I removed the temp. probe and placed it in a different locaction on the butt. THe meat temp. went down to 177 degrees. I decide to go to bed and wake up at 5am. I wake up, check the butts and they're both finished. the small butt has an average temp. of 198 degrees, while the larger one has an average temp. of 197.

I double foiled both butts, threw in a lot of newspaper in the ice chest and now it's resting until 6pm today.

THis is the second (out of four) time my butts cooked in record time. THe thermometer at the lid has been checked prior to the smoke so I know it's not giving a false reading. It's very frustrating trying to prepare for everything and expecting a cook time between 12-16 hours, however it actually being 8 hours. How do I prepare for this next time I decide to smoke some butt? It's now 6am and I am literally steaming, not knowing what I am doing wrong. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.
 
some butts are funny that way. i use the saucer mod as well and put a 7# butt on at 11pm last night and it is only at 150 internal now after 10 hours. i may be looking at a 20 hour cook for a 7 pounder if it plataues as expected. my grate temp has beed 230-240 since 11 last night. good thing the butt is for mid week so i don't care when it's done. spares are what's for dinner tonight. they go on at noon
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I would guesstimate a 6 lb butt finishing between 9 and 12 hours. Given your start time and adding a little cooktime for two, you were still within range. It is difficult to guage an overnight cook when you plan on eating the following evening. I've always just planned on a reheating.

I would not keep the meat in the cooler as long as you indicated. I would either give it 3 to 4 hours in the cooler, pull, place in ziplock bags in the freezer and reheat, or keep in cooler for 3 to 4 hours, then place butts, still wrapped, in frig and reheat in oven and then pull. I haven't reheated this way, but i believe it is 300 degress in the oven for an hour.

Paul
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">How do I prepare for this next time I decide to smoke some butt? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>By temping at the grate level, with the probe not too close to the edge of the grate (where it can be affected by the heat updraft) nor to the meat where, at the outset, it can be affected by the cool meat temps. It seems possible--even likely--that your cook temps were higher than your lid temps, thus shortening the cook.
 
Between TVWB and Cook's Illustrated science segments, I've come to believe that the X variable in burn times is the comparative fat:lean ratio. I suppose that's why the bottom line is to cook to temperature not to time.

The scariest thing for me has always been the plateau effect. I remember well my first attempt at pork butt. I rigged the charcoal bowl, vents, and wood, set the thermometer in the top vent and pulled my pre-rubbed butt from the refrig. The burn was great, temperatures locked in on the bullet at the sweet spot and I was a happy camper. After about 8 hours of burn and a couple of cider bastings, I checked internal temp. Two hours later I checked the temp again. It hadn't moved. That temp scared the bejeebers out of me! I began to question my thermometer because it moved not one degree for over 4 hours. But when it did move, it shot up very fast and I was finally able to pull the butt. Naturally, thanks to this site, it came out perfect.
 
Weird, I've done three butt smokes to date and I average between 15 and 19 hours for two 7 - 8 lb butts.

I'm pretty much using the same setup as you; clay saucer, MM, meat and smoker probe, and, I'm just down the street from you in Fresno so our conditions are similar too. However, two things I do differently is I'm starting with 1/2 the lit coals (8 - 10 max) and I measure my temp at the grate. I don't know if starting with fewer coals would make a difference, actually I doubt it would as you're shutting vents down at the same point that I do . . . who knows, very odd.
 
I also use the terra cotta saucer nested inside the stock water pan, and I have discovered that the middle of the top grate is about 25 to 30 degrees hotter than the lid temps. I'm sure the outside portion of the top grate is hotter still. Your 250 lid temp was probably more like 280 at the grate, with the outside parts going even higher.

If you want to slow it down, I would aim for 210 to 220 at the lid.
 
I've two sets of two butts, each about 6-7lbs. Both of times it took over 16 hours, and that's even after I foiled them at the end. So, I have the exact opposite problem.
 
hey Larry. My wsm hasn't been used yet and is so nice and shiny. I know you are good at cleaning it. Tell me how to do that and you can send private email then I will get it. thanks.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erik G:
My preparations start at 4pm. and cut off the fat caps.
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Not related to your problem but I feel I must post about this because I read about so people doing this too many times.
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If you know this sorry but for those who don't I'm posting because of the best part of the butt is lost in doing this, cutting off the fat cap. If you buy untrimmed butts please don't cut the fat caps off. See there are 2 fat caps on a butt the one you see is a false cap and the true fat cap. There's a very thin piece of meat that lies under the false cap and on top of the true fat cap. Now let me tell you that when your butt is done cooking and after the rest and you got to pull it here is where you will be rewarded for your efforts. I consider this the cooks reward and I hardly ever share it.
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Gently push the false fat cap aside with your thumb to expose that very thin layer of meat that is sitting on top of the true fat cap and quickly eat it while no one is looking. Trust me you will be eating Pork Butt Nirvana.
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Paul, I decided to leave the meat in the cooler. Everything was still very warm and tasted great, thanks for the advice.

Kevin, how do you recommend setting up the temp. probe at the top grate? I would like something permanent, if that's possible. Thanks.

Larry, I believe starting with fewer coals would make a difference. I was just following Chris directions on how to cook a butt and started with 20 lit briquettes. I'll try 8-10 coals next time, thanks.

David, how would I lower the temperature at the lid? All three bottom vents were completely closed and the top vent was fully opened. This was my first time using the tera cotta saucer. For some reason it seems as I had better control with water in the brinkman charcoal pan. I am not fully convinced, and might revert back to the water.

Bryan, I already feel guilty eating pork butt and you're recommending eating the fat? This site is great.
 
Bryan is recommending you leave the cap on when you cook and then eat the thin strip of pork between the cap and the false cap, not the fat itself.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For some reason it seems as I had better control with water in the brinkman charcoal pan. I am not fully convinced, and might revert back to the water. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the water helps act as a heatsink and robs heat away to help keep the temps down. You should be able to keep the temps down without water, if they are high with all the vents closed, you are leaking air elsewhere, I suggest you make sure your door is sealed as best as possible, you have the sections lined up with no gaps between them, etc.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erik G:
Paul, I decided to leave the meat in the cooler. Everything was still very warm and tasted great, thanks for the advice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Paul's suggestion was related to food safety as the potential for a problem developing increases exponentially with time if any portion of the butt falls below 130F.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Kevin, how do you recommend setting up the temp. probe at the top grate? I would like something permanent, if that's possible. Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It is not that you must temp at the grate, just that if wish to get a better idea of your cooktemp and why your cook is quicker it would be helpful.

I rarely temp the grate anymore unless I'm doing bacon. I used to--along with taking lid temps--and, though I do low/slows with water, high heat cooks with an empty pan, I am comfortable using the lid temps alone.

I don't know of an effective permanent grate temp solution (I just used a Mav) and am not even a fan of permanent lid temp solutions, though they are easier to do.

I routinely do butts at mid-upper 200s and my cook times are the same as yours. I'm with David upthread: It seems likely that, using the terra cotta, your grate temps are higher than your lid temps and that is why the cook is quicker. You can monitor grate temps to see, or you can simply shoot for the lid temp target he suggests, ~215.

I am not one that believes that 'every butt is different' or some such. Butts are not briskets--they are remarkably consistent as one of the main points of mass produced pork is consistency, from kill weights to lean:fat. Full-sized butts don't vary much by anything significant except for weight. Small butts of 3 or 4 or 5 lbs aren't--they're pieces of butts (and can vary depending on what piece they are), and cook times of boneless butts can vary depending on how hacked they were when the bone was removed and whether and how the cook ties the butt before cooking.

I low/slow butts often too as it is frequently more convenient to cook overnight than not. I use water because I find it so easy and convenient to use and its heat sink ability is so clear. If I'd actually remember to look for a terra cotta saucer I'd try it for the helluvit but, with the usual ambient conditions I cook under, water seems to me to be a better choice.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Larry, I believe starting with fewer coals would make a difference. I was just following Chris directions on how to cook a butt and started with 20 lit briquettes. I'll try 8-10 coals next time, thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Quantity depends on ambient conditions and the condition of the coal. You get used to what works best for you in various circumstances as you cook more and try different amounts.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">David, how would I lower the temperature at the lid? All three bottom vents were completely closed and the top vent was fully opened. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Starting with fewer lit will help keep temps in check on the way up. But with all lowers closed you should not have a rise. I don't find tiny door gaps to be an issue. It is usually the vent(s) not closing well, the middle not seated well, or an out-of-round condition of the middle--all three, imo, affect coals more--and more consistently--than the door (provided the door is reasonably snug).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bryan, I already feel guilty eating pork butt and you're recommending eating the fat? This site is great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I love the fat(!) though Matt is right: the lean under the false cap is what Bryan is talking about. However, there are no bad foods, just bad food habits.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Larry, I believe starting with fewer coals would make a difference. I was just following Chris directions on how to cook a butt and started with 20 lit briquettes. I'll try 8-10 coals next time, thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erik,

LOL, I did the same on my first and second cook with my clay saucer. What I didn't realize was that the clay saucer smoke is far different from using a water pan and the directions on the site for butts were written for water pan vs. clay saucer. Once you get the hang of it you'll love it, for overnight cooks it's great not having to worry about running out of water and getting temp spikes. I'm sure David L. and Bill F. and other's remember my second saucer smoke, it was a mess, I couldn't get the temps down, I was throwing ice on the saucer (believe it or not it didn't crack), had all the vents closed etc. It was a nightmare start and I thought I had ruined the butts; but with the great and "real-time" feedback from this site everything worked out in the end. It's funny to go back and read the post - http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4680069052/m...270005294#2270005294

Get back on that horse because it does get easier.
 

 

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