No smoke ring


 
C

chris bailey

New member
I apologize if this has been covered before. I am not new to BBQ and have successfully competed in numerous KCBS contests especially with brisket. I have been BBQing nearly 10 years. I am not able to get a smoke ring with a Weber Bullet. I really love the smoker, easy to use, keeps steady heat forever but I can't get a smoke ring on ribs, butt or brisket. I use an offset smoker for competitions and always get a great smoke ring. I have tried numerous times (I have had this bullet for about 4 years) and I just can not get a ring. Can someone please enlighten me? Be kind. cb
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chris bailey:
I apologize if this has been covered before. I am not new to BBQ and have successfully competed in numerous KCBS contests especially with brisket. I have been BBQing nearly 10 years. I am not able to get a smoke ring with a Weber Bullet. I really love the smoker, easy to use, keeps steady heat forever but I can't get a smoke ring on ribs, butt or brisket. I use an offset smoker for competitions and always get a great smoke ring. I have tried numerous times (I have had this bullet for about 4 years) and I just can not get a ring. Can someone please enlighten me? Be kind. cb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It has to be the fuel. Kingsford creates a great smoke-ring but when you go to lump, you get less of one. What are you using?

Bill

EDIT: Here's an example of the smoke-ring using Kingsford on an "Eye of Round" I recently smoked..
 
As the "ring" is purely cosmetic, obviously its not the most important thing UNLESS its for competition.

I would guess the secret would lie somewhere in the science of how it forms. Since you are posting here, I would assume you understand the basics.

From that I would have a few questions.

1.) are you putting your meat on cold or at room temp?

2.) are you using standard or minion method?

3.) When are you adding smoke wood?


I have had no problem with building a ring on any meat. Sure some have been more "picture perfect" then others... but it should still be there.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scooter B:
As the "ring" is purely cosmetic, obviously its not the most important thing UNLESS its for competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are you sure? My understanding is that no points are awarded for or against the presence of a smoke ring in KCBS competition.

Bill
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bill Hays:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chris bailey:
I apologize if this has been covered before. I am not new to BBQ and have successfully competed in numerous KCBS contests especially with brisket. I have been BBQing nearly 10 years. I am not able to get a smoke ring with a Weber Bullet. I really love the smoker, easy to use, keeps steady heat forever but I can't get a smoke ring on ribs, butt or brisket. I use an offset smoker for competitions and always get a great smoke ring. I have tried numerous times (I have had this bullet for about 4 years) and I just can not get a ring. Can someone please enlighten me? Be kind. cb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It has to be the fuel. Kingsford creates a great smoke-ring but when you go to lump, you get less of one. What are you using?

Bill

Thanks for your response Bill. I know what a smoke ring looks like since I get really nice ones with my offset smoker. I use Kingsford all the time.


EDIT: Here's an example of the smoke-ring using Kingsford on an "Eye of Round" I recently smoked.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scooter B:
As the "ring" is purely cosmetic, obviously its not the most important thing UNLESS its for competition.

I would guess the secret would lie somewhere in the science of how it forms. Since you are posting here, I would assume you understand the basics.

From that I would have a few questions.

1.) are you putting your meat on cold or at room temp?

2.) are you using standard or minion method?

3.) When are you adding smoke wood?


I have had no problem with building a ring on any meat. Sure some have been more "picture perfect" then others... but it should still be there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the response Scooter. 1. I put the meat on somewhere between cold and room temp pretty much the same as I do with the offset. Maybe I am putting it on too cold? 2. I do use the minion method all the time. 3. I add the smoke upfront, the first 3 hours or so. Thanks again. cb
 
smoke rings can be faked with the addition of sodium nitrite in your rub (may want to go that route it all else fails
icon_wink.gif
). because of this, judges are instructed not to be influenced either by the ring or the lack of one.

the esteemed merl whitebrook confirms it here

either fake or not, it is emblematic of slow, wood-smoked meat, and I'm willing to bet it helps your appearance score to have a brightly colored and deep ring.

as for ring formation, Kevin K helped me out on this one, the key here is fuel and temp.

It seems like some fuels provide more nitrogen in the gasses they produce, and one interesting thing is wood doesn't create much of a ring at all. Cooks who run electric smokers know this and talk about adding charcoal to their wood to create a ring. Briquettes seem to release more nitrogen, and as Bill states, Kingsford is usually recommended.

Having nitrogen is half the battle. The nitrogen needs to react with a protein in the meat and the protein needs to be in working order for the red color to form. Once proteins get hot they start to fall apart, so all the nitrogen in the world won't create a ring if the surface of your meat is cooked. The temp that is thrown around is 140*. Once the surface is 140* your proteins are cooked and lost their ability to turn red.

So get your fire pumping out nitrogen and get your meat on cold, and keep your smoker low at the start. There's some talk about starting with ice in your pan to keep things really low at the start.
 
i really have to question that kingsford gives the best smoke ring. its whatever you put on the meat that has the nitrates in it that gives that effect. i get "smoke rings" if i use mustard slather or just salt and pepper. i use pecan mostly and the results are great looking though i don't really care how the "ring" looks. i never use kingsford. i'm not arguing this issue, just voicing a differant thought on the issue.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j biesinger:
smoke rings can be faked with the addition of sodium nitrite in your rub (may want to go that route it all else fails
icon_wink.gif
). because of this, judges are instructed not to be influenced either by the ring or the lack of one.

the esteemed merl whitebrook confirms it here

either fake or not, it is emblematic of slow, wood-smoked meat, and I'm willing to bet it helps your appearance score to have a brightly colored and deep ring.

as for ring formation, Kevin K helped me out on this one, the key here is fuel and temp.

It seems like some fuels provide more nitrogen in the gasses they produce, and one interesting thing is wood doesn't create much of a ring at all. Cooks who run electric smokers know this and talk about adding charcoal to their wood to create a ring. Briquettes seem to release more nitrogen, and as Bill states, Kingsford is usually recommended.

Having nitrogen is half the battle. The nitrogen needs to react with a protein in the meat and the protein needs to be in working order for the red color to form. Once proteins get hot they start to fall apart, so all the nitrogen in the world won't create a ring if the surface of your meat is cooked. The temp that is thrown around is 140*. Once the surface is 140* your proteins are cooked and lost their ability to turn red.

So get your fire pumping out nitrogen and get your meat on cold, and keep your smoker low at the start. There's some talk about starting with ice in your pan to keep things really low at the start. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the invaluable information J. Good stuff and I will implement with my next brisket and see what happens. I am totally perplexed that I get a ring on the offset and not on the Weber using the same methodology. I agree with your comment about the smoke ring in competitions. It may not be technically required but good luck coming in first without it. Thanks again. Happy Holidays. cb
 
Hi Chris,
Here is the ring I got, using blue Kingsford and no wood, minion method. I let the brisket set at room temp for one hour and rubbed mustard, Lowry's seasoned salt and topped with brown sugar. The smoker set at 200 for about 30 minutes and then took another 30 to get to 225, where it pretty much stayed for the rest of the cook. Didn't taste great, but looked good.
http://i772.photobucket.com/al.../eusrwt/IMG_5177.jpg
I smoked again today (Just seasoned salt and pepper) and added 4 small chunks of hickory. I used too many coals in the starter and smoker immediately ran up to 275 and I had to work with it to get it to 225-250 in 30 minutes or so, where it ran all day. I got a very thin smoke ring, but tastes much better. I'm just a beginner but I gotta think it has something to do with how slowly you heat it up...unless the mustard has some effect or both.
Cheers,
Russ
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i really have to question that kingsford gives the best smoke ring. its whatever you put on the meat that has the nitrates in it that gives that effect. i get "smoke rings" if i use mustard slather or just salt and pepper. i use pecan mostly and the results are great looking though i don't really care how the "ring" looks. i never use kingsford. i'm not arguing this issue, just voicing a differant thought on the issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't say, I've never cooked over Kingsford, but I do know its recommended in this regard.

Its new to me that there would be nitrates in mustard. I've read about people curing bacon in celery juice which has a high nitrate concentration due to fertilization during cultivation, never anything other than veggie juices. I'm not going to dismiss your hypothesis outright, as I can offer an alternative that agrees with my info. The mustard slather will create a moist surface to start with. Moisture might help the meat surface absorb the nitrate produced by burning, accelerating ring formation, and will also keep the meat surface cooler as the moisture evaporates off, extending ring formation.
 
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