Never Ending Quest


 
M

M Borner

TVWBB Member
Hello all.
In my never ending quest to create a really great backyard grilled burger I've discovered an issue that I'm not really sure is an issue. Thanks to Danny B for posting this link. http://amazingribs.com/recipes/hamburgers/index.html
I've spent a lot of time on Amazingribs.com and I've come to the realization that the perfect grilled burger must have, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a dark, crispy, charred crust. Not just grill marks, but the entire burger should look this way.
On to my issue. Many grillers feel that if you're grilling something that cooks quickly, or is less than, say, 1/2" you should always get it on and of the grille quickly and you should leave the lid up. I have a Weber S310 that's pretty new but well seasoned. My grill will not cook with the lid up, period. During my last burger experiment I preheated the grill with the lid down to just below melting. I opened the lid, threw on a couple of 8 oz. chuck patties and left the lid open. My hope was to get a nice crust on the bottom without cooking them from the top. Upon contact with the grate the burgers smoked and sizzled wonderfully. 20 seconds later, all is dead. no smoke, no sizzle. I left the lid open and was trying to be patient. I checked the burgers after 10 minutes and they looked like wet, raw meat on a cold sidewalk. They simply were not cooking. I waited another 20 minutes in the hope they would show signs of browning. After a total of 40 minutes untouched on the grill, I got impatient and flipped them. They were barely tan on the bottom. Frustrated, I removed the burgers from the grill and closed the lid. All three burners were still on high. After the grill got screaming hot again I threw the burgers back on and this time, closed the lid. They cooked super fast. 60 seconds on one side and 60 seconds on the other. The char was too much as some of the edged got burned, although, they were probably some of the best tasting burgers I've done on my grill.
If I close the lid and turn the heat down the burgers will get done before they ever get a good char on them. If I want a good char, they cook way too fast and burn on the outside and are undercooked on the inside. I like mine medium/well. I just cannot find a good middle ground.

So, is this normal for this grill? It seems most gassers would be able to cook with the lid up but mine doesn't even pretend to cook. The ambient temperature outside was 82 degrees. I've checked all burners and they all are emitting a beautiful, full blue flame, and with the lid down the temp. easily shoots past 750 degrees.
Is my grill incapable of creating a perfect burger? Do I have to go buy an infrared burner or grill? How can I get more heat from my grill with the lid up?
 
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Sounds to me like you basically did a reverse sear. I guess because of the quirk of the grill, the burgers got cooked through on a lower heat (lid open), then at the last minute they got a good exterior sear (lid closed to reload the temperature). The end product being a burger that was cooked through and had a good grilled exterior without being burnt to a crisp.

I would continue with the experimentation and see if it's repeatable. Could be a whole new way to obtain a top-notch burger. You invented it, you get to name it! Let's see...How about, The Borner Burger!
 
Russ Sylvester said:
Sounds to me like you basically did a reverse sear. I guess because of the quirk of the grill, the burgers got cooked through on a lower heat (lid open), then at the last minute they got a good exterior sear (lid closed to reload the temperature). The end product being a burger that was cooked through and had a good grilled exterior without being burnt to a crisp.

I would continue with the experimentation and see if it's repeatable. Could be a whole new way to obtain a top-notch burger. You invented it, you get to name it! Let's see...How about, The Borner Burger!
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Funny!:D Thanks, Russ. I'll keep experimenting. I'm going to try propping the lid open a bit and see if I can't get a good crust that way.
 
How can I get more heat from my grill with the lid up?

Short of adding pure oxygen to the flame, you can't. Your grill along with every other grill made is only going to generate so many BTUs. With the lid up, you're throwing those BTUs away unless you're willing to heat up the entire atmosphere. Your neighbors might not appreciate that. (grin)

With the lid closed, the atmosphere your grill needs to heat is now confined to the inside of your grill. If your meat burns before the center is cooked, you need to turn down the heat. If your meat won't sear before the center is cooked, you need to turn up the heat. Somewhere in between is Nirvana.
 
Phil S said:
How can I get more heat from my grill with the lid up?

Short of adding pure oxygen to the flame, you can't. Your grill along with every other grill made is only going to generate so many BTUs. With the lid up, you're throwing those BTUs away unless you're willing to heat up the entire atmosphere. Your neighbors might not appreciate that. (grin)

With the lid closed, the atmosphere your grill needs to heat is now confined to the inside of your grill. If your meat burns before the center is cooked, you need to turn down the heat. If your meat won't sear before the center is cooked, you need to turn up the heat. Somewhere in between is Nirvana.
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Thanks, Phil, still working on perfecting my technique, although, admittedly, I've been struggling.
Here's the story of my life: I go out and order a burger in a restaurant or one of my favorite burger joints and I always end up saying to myself "why don't my burgers taste this good?"
 
Although somewhat different from conventional burgers, you may want to try smashed burgers cooked on a skillet.

This is pretty much how the gourmet burger places around here operate.
 
I'm glad you found the link to Amazing Ribs useful. Between this great site and Amazing Ribs I have learned most of what I know about grilling/smoking.

I went back and read the steakhouse burger recipe on amazing ribs and he used a cast iron skillet on his gas grill to get the burger he wanted. He used his charcoal grill when putting the burgers directly over the heat source for searing.

So based on this I would try using a cast iron skillet on your gasser and buy a weber kettle if don't already have one. Good luck!
 
THoey said:
Have you looked into the Grill Grates? I don't own them, but have heard rave reviews, especially when turned upside down for burgers.

http://www.grillgrate.com/
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Hi THoey, yes, I've heard of them and done some research but I'm a little leery, mainly because my cooking grate already sits way too high above the burners to cook anything. Raising the cooking surface even higher from the heat source than it is now doesn't seem productive. My grill simply won't get hot enough with the lid open to make the Grill Grates effective. As it is now, with all three burners on high, I can hold my hand right on top of the cooking great for about 7 to 10 seconds. The grill has no problem getting hot with the lid down.

I forgot to mention in my first post that, although my last burgers were pretty tasty, they were overcooked. I think If I would have seared them sooner they would have been much better.

Edit:
Do you think it might be effective to lay the Grill Grates right on top of the flavorizer bars, and instead of cooking on them, use them as a radiant heat source to create more heat? Maybe then I would be able to sear with the lid up.
 
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MB, those things are supposed to work using radient heat. Kind of like a heat sync that you cook on. Might actually help your grill. Then again, it just might be a Genesis thing as I usually sear my food with the lid closed too.
 
THoey said:
MB, those things are supposed to work using radient heat. Kind of like a heat sync that you cook on. Might actually help your grill. Then again, it just might be a Genesis thing as I usually sear my food with the lid closed too.
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Thanks, THoey. Would you say it's normal for these grills to have absolutely no cooking ability with the lid up? I mean, my grill literally won't do anything with the lid up. Creating a char requires temperatures greater than 300 degrees. I'm guessing the temperature on my grill at the grate is around 150-200 degrees, with the lid up. That just doesn't sound normal. Is anybody else able to cook on a gasser with the lid up?
 
I normally cook with the lid down, however, I have cooked with the lid up. It isn't as fast and hot that way, but it gets hot enough that I couldn't possibly hold my hand close to the grate for very long. I have a 2009 Spirit 310 with the east/west burners, as opposed to your north/south array. Maybe because of the longer length of the e/w burners that they throw more heat? I dunno, but I certainly feel your pain about cooking the perfect burger. When I cook mine, even the dog turns her nose up at it.
 
colin.p said:
I normally cook with the lid down, however, I have cooked with the lid up. It isn't as fast and hot that way, but it gets hot enough that I couldn't possibly hold my hand close to the grate for very long. I have a 2009 Spirit 310 with the east/west burners, as opposed to your north/south array. Maybe because of the longer length of the e/w burners that they throw more heat? I dunno, but I certainly feel your pain about cooking the perfect burger. When I cook mine, even the dog turns her nose up at it.
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Thanks, Colin. Actually, my S-310 is the last generation model, so it has an east/west burner configuration. I don't know, I *think* my grill is in good working order.:confused: With the lid down it can peg the thermometer at 750 degrees within 20-25 minutes. Open the lid, however, and it's completely useless. I understand that most gassers don't have the power to sear with the lid up but mine won't cook at all. Here's a pic of the flame from all three burners on high. It looks normal to me.

i-jbdzCXK-L.jpg
 
I don't think gas grills are designed to cook with the lid up. If you leave the lid off on a charcoal grill the coals will get hotter & hotter and ignite before long. The lid on charcoal grills stops flare-ups, and I'm sure it works similarly on gas grills.....other than when you open the lid it's not feeding the gas (fire), it's just letting all the heat escape.
 
Gas is good for a couple of quick burgs, but I always prefer charcoal. A full chimney of briquettes with a couple of chunks of oak or hickory dumped into Weber charcoal baskets (the ones made for indirect cooking, but mate them together in the center of the grill and dump the fire into them). The wood adds to the heat and of course, the flavor. I grind my own burgers -- 50% chuck steak, 25% brisket and 25% pork rib trimmings. Grind coarse and form quickly into 6 oz patties, about 3/4" thick. No add-ins, just a bunch of coarse sea salt right before grilling. 3-4 minutes per side should give you a good sear while still staying a bit pink inside (150° internal if you probe them). Now I'm getting hungry.

Jeff
 
You will get a better burger grilling over charcoal. You can grill with the lid on or off. Your gas grill will do a fine job of
getting the charcoal in the chimney going, and your kettle will do a finer job of grilling your burger with flavor that you are missing
from the gasser. At least that is how it has worked for me for the last 55 years. YMMV.
 
Bob H. said:
You will get a better burger grilling over charcoal. You can grill with the lid on or off. Your gas grill will do a fine job of
getting the charcoal in the chimney going, and your kettle will do a finer job of grilling your burger with flavor that you are missing
from the gasser. At least that is how it has worked for me for the last 55 years. YMMV.
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Thanks, Bob. I understand the raging debate over gas vs. charcoal but I gotta tell ya, the best burgers I've ever eaten in my entire life are cooked over gas. Apparently, I'm not the only one that thinks so because the burger comes from only one place in the country and it's known to be one of the best, if not *the* best.

http://www.theletub.com/news.asp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojm5udC_WY4

I'm just trying to recreate some of that flavor on my grill, that's all.
 
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I am going to watch spring training baseball in March. If I get that far south I will give one a try.
 
slow roasted for 30 minutes?

One of my favorite chains in Utah is Apollo Burgers, they have big gas grills & griddles that they use, & they produce a great flavor; their grill portion looked somewhat similar to the video, but they cook theirs to order in only a few minutes, & the flames can reach quite high. I watched one of the owners talking to the meat guy, asking for a slightly different grind which impressed me several years ago.

If you ever go through SLC, UT, be sure to stop at Apollo Burgers, Olympus Burgers, Greek Souvlaki, or Astro Burgers

this looks a little like what they use, IIRC: http://www.archiexpo.com/prod/garland/commercial-gas-grills-9819-403986.html
 
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