Need some turkey opinions

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I'm going to do the apple brined turkey on the WSM this weekend:
http://tvwbb.101inc.com/tvwbubb/Forum2/HTML/000006.html

Two questions. One, at what temp should I cook to get the skin crispy and still maintain the tenderness? Next question -- I ordered the ceramic turkey sitter that Rita had linked us to. Should I fill the sitter (shaped like a large ceramic beer can) with liquid and/or veggies or herbs, and if so, what do you recommend? I have a fresh herb garden out front including parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif , mint (not for turkey!), oregano, marjoram, terragon, and garlic chives.

I can't wait to try this (test run before Thanksgiving, hoping not to have to grin my way through my mother-in-law's turkey again /infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) I have Friday and Saturday off and will probably do this on Friday. Any tips would be appreciated!

Kelly
(edited to correct spelling error)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelly Ratzlaff:
[qb]Two questions. One, at what temp should I cook to get the skin crispy and still maintain the tenderness?[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Turkey does very well at fairly high temperatures (325 to 350 degrees) with a fairly minimal application of wood smoke.

Basically, cook it pretty much same way you would roast a turkey in the oven, but add the moistness, texure, and flavor of 3 or 4 hours over a wood ember fire. That approach will make the best Thanksgiving turkey you've ever eaten.
 
Kelly,

Kudos to you for doing a trial turkey run before Thanksgiving Day. Smart, very smart.

I am now cooking turkeys in the 300-325*F range. It can be hard to keep the WSM at this temp with a lot of water in the pan, so you might want to cut back on water.

I think Webb mentioned the Chinese duck air-dried thing the other day, and the Nov-Dec 2001 issue of Cook's Illustrated magazine also endorses this idea for making brined chicken and turkey skin cook up crispy. After brining, they say to put the turkey on a cooling rack placed over a rimmed baking sheet, pat the bird dry with paper towels, and place it uncovered in the refrigerator overnight. The air will dry out the skin, promoting cripsy skin when cooked.

I'll be trying this on my Thanksgiving turkey next month.

Regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]
I am now cooking turkeys in the 300-325*F range. It can be hard to keep the WSM at this temp with a lot of water in the pan, so you might want to cut back on water.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can also go a good deal higher than that on the temperature with good results. And, holding temperatures in a very narrow range doesn't seem to matter. So it might be actually better to just leave the pan empty. I think it's probably better to err on the high side. It'll just cook faster.

After cooking Thanksgiving and Christmas turkeys on the Weber exclusively for the last 25 years, I finally had one fool me last Christmas.

I had to shovel three feet of snow off the deck to get to the grill. It was about 10 degrees outside with wind gusts up in the 40 mile per hour zone. I felt like an Artic explorer trying to cook outside in that weather.

I put the bird on and, early on, I had serious reservations about my ability to keep the fire hot enough in those weather conditions, so I really laid the coals to it. I usually figure 4 to 5 hours for a stuffed bird, so imagine my surprise when I went out to collect my drippings for gravy at the 3 hour mark and discovered that the bird looked done! I wiggled a leg and poked it with a thermometer and sure 'nough, it was cooked. The wind had flamed my fire all afternoon and I had clearly been cooking at very high temperatures -- probably close to 400 degrees.

The bird went in a low oven to hold for an hour or so til the guest arrived and was as tasty as always.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> From Webb: The wind had flamed my fire all afternoon and I had clearly been cooking at very high temperatures -- probably close to 400 degrees.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds like you got a sneak peek at our latest issue of the Grill Out times that drops in the mail today. On page 2, 3rd column, 1st paragraph, "Cold, windy days will also affect the temperature inside charcoal grills, actually raising the heat because of the added oxygen getting into the fire. To compensate, close the dampers on your grill's bowl slightly, slowing down the burn. But always keep the lid vents wide open." Weber's newsletter The Grill Out Times, Fall 2001

If anyone isn't on the Grill Out Times mailing list, just call in and register your bullet or any other Weber grill. Don't worry, our privacy policy is iron clad - just check the website www.weber.com .

Weber Dave

null
 
Grill Out Times is a fun thing to receive as a Weber owner and I'd recommend that anyone owning a WSM or other Weber grill sign up for it. It's free and comes out quarterly.

Dave didn't include the phone number, so here it is: 800-446-1071.

Regards,
Chris
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Allingham:
[qb]I think Webb mentioned the Chinese duck air-dried thing the other day, and the Nov-Dec 2001 issue of Cook's Illustrated magazine also endorses this idea for making brined chicken and turkey skin cook up crispy. After brining, they say to put the turkey on a cooling rack placed over a rimmed baking sheet, pat the bird dry with paper towels, and place it uncovered in the refrigerator overnight. The air will dry out the skin, promoting cripsy skin when cooked.[/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Overnight uncovered in the fridge is also a good trick before frying buffalo chicken wings. It makes them brown and crisp up better when they hit the hot oil.

Actually, a dry surface is one of the age-old rules of cooking. The process that browns the exterior of meat in a skillet (or over coals) is called a "Mallard reaction" and involves the carmelization of sugars and proteins in the surface layer of the meat. Moisture interferes with the reaction, so the surface of the meat has to be dry for this browning and formation of a crispy crust to occur.

Julia Child makes repeated references to this as far back as her masterpiece "Mastering the Art of French Cooking" published in 1961 -- advising to pat the meat dry before browning cubes of beef for beef stew, or putting a chicken in the oven to roast, etc.

It's also why things like veal cutlets in Italy and pork chops in the United States are traditionally dredged in a light coating of flour before frying. The flour dries the surface of the meat. I suspect that (in addition to the added sugar) this is one of the reasons that dry rubs produce such a nice crust on the outside of meat.

I think it's become more of a problem as our meats are now bred to be moister and often shipped in a brine. They release a lot of moisture as they start to cook and it makes proper browning more difficult.
 
Some of the best bark I have ever produced on a Pork Butt came from when I stored the Butt in the fridge unwrapped after applying the dry rub. This made the rub get really crispy and it actually got absorbed better.

Don't do this with a Brisket though, I tried it and the beef loses way too much moisture. The pork didn't do that though. I guess the tissue of beef without the amount and type of fat that pork has, just dehydrates rapidly if left to the open air.

I don't always do this with pork, but this post reminded me of how good it turned out when I did that.

Make sure your other food is covered well though, because it might absorb the taste and smell of the dry rub. LOL
 
Hi Kelly,

I had the same idea, although I have never tried it before, I was planning on doing a small "beer butt" turkey, basically using the same principles as the chicken recipe.

I say go for it! A trial run with a small bird can't hurt, and you will be able to experiment with how the liquid adds flavor to the meat. I'll be doing some butts for a party this weekend, but the following weekend I plan to test this theory out. Please let us know how it turns out. We're very intrigued! Good Luck!

Derek
 
Thanks, everyone for your input! I will definitely do the air-dried thing overnight and of course, I will post and let you know how it goes. I'm off to get the turkey now (fresh). I'll take it out of the brine Thursday evening and cook it Friday. I'm thinking that I'll boil some of the leftover brine, maybe add some fresh ginger and oranges (which are also in the original brine) and use that to fill the sitter. Pat, excellent point about not getting too many flavors going.

Chris, I'm a HUGE believer in test runs, and I have a husband who just loves to be my guinea pig!

Thanks again, everyone, and I will report back.

Kelly
 
Chris:

Thanks for adding the phone number for the customer service line. One note though, the Grill Out Times comes out just twice a year now, not quarterly. Just Spring & Fall. If this changes you'll know it when the unexpected issue drops in your mailbox!

P.S. Brined & Smoked Turkey will ruin your family for anything else again! My family ate the whole turkey and didn't touch the duck - and that is unheard of.

Weber Dave /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
 
As promised, I'm reporting in on the turkey results.

Overall, the results were OUTSTANDING. Flavor, tenderness, moisture.... *burp*. The skin was far from rubbery, but it was not as crisp as I had hoped for, despite drying it uncovered overnight in the fridge (but standby, I think I know why).

I ended up filling the turkey sitter with white wine, crushed garlic, and rosemary. I didn't notice any rosemary flavor in the finished product, so I don't know if I would bother with that again -- probably stick with wine and garlic.

My goal was to cook it at around 300 degrees, but I didn't get the smoker that high until the end of the cook (the last hour or so). All vents were wide open the entire time and I think I know why the temp wouldn't come up. One was that I only used a little over half a ring of charcoal. At the two-hour mark my temp had dropped to 210 and the coals were looking pretty weak. I added a little over half a chimney of unlit charcoal, and from there on out the temp came up nicely.

I started with a full water pan and did not replenish the water. I think that contributed to the lower temps as well.

Next time I do this I will start with more charcoal and not use water in the water pan.

As for the finished product... I will never do a turkey in the oven again and, if I can help it, will never eat an oven-roasted turkey again. Weber Dave, you were right about brined and smoked turkey ruining me.

I think my husband feels the same way, but I can't be sure because he's been eating turkey for half an hour straight now and hasn't paused long enough to tell me what he thinks... although his grunting and moaning pretty much gives him away. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

What an outstanding flavor. My bird weighed 14 pounds and I put it in the brine Tuesday night. Thursday night I took it out and patted it dry and let it sit overnight. Total cooking time was five hours.

Um, do you think it would be a bad thing if hubby and me polish off an entire 14-pound turkey in one sitting??? /infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Thanks again, everyone, for such great feedback and advice. I gotta go eat some more turkey now...

Kelly
*burp*
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelly Ratzlaff:
[qb] As for the finished product... I will never do a turkey in the oven again and, if I can help it, will never eat an oven-roasted turkey again. [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've eaten Weber roasted turkey every year since about 1965 and, during that time, I have NEVER once cooked a turkey in the oven.

We stuff ours with a rich, buttery stuffing, and, if you think the turkey is good cooked outside, take a bite of the stuffing. Wow!

[For any food police who may be lurking -- save it. We stuff the bird with hot stuffing fresh from the skillet two minutes before it goes on the Weber and roast at 350+ degrees. No food poisoning in 35 years.]
 
Webb,

I'd love to have your stuffing recipe (I don't have a favorite but I'm looking). Obviously, you don't use a vertical roaster when you cook the bird with the stuffing in it... /infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif I'm still laughing at picturing you out there in arctic temps. I'm from Minnesota and my husband I are going to be moving back there next summer, so I'll joining the ranks of the arctic grillers!

Kelly
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kelly Ratzlaff:
[qb]Webb,

I'd love to have your stuffing recipe (I don't have a favorite but I'm looking). Obviously, you don't use a vertical roaster when you cook the bird with the stuffing in it... [/qb] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll have to get the recipe. For 25 years, my wife and I have had a deal on turkeys: she stuffs it and I cook it. I stay out of her way when she's making the stuffing and she stays out of my way when it's on the Weber.

I've taken over the creamed onions (with Julia Child's recipe) and the gravy making. My wife does the rest of the side dishes.

I do know it's a pretty simple stuffing. She uses bags of Pepperidge Farm stuffing, cooked with about a bag of onions, and maybe eight sticks of butter <g>, plus Bell's Poultry seasoning. If it were up to me, I might put some apples in the stuffing, but, like I say, I stay out of the way!

I traditionally just wrap the bird in cheesecloth, sit it on a roasting rack, and put the whole thing in a disposable foil pan. This year, I'm going to do it on the rotisserie spit in my "WSM on steroids" contraption so it's self-basting. I don't think I'll need the cheesecloth, but I'll have it ready if I do.
 
Thanks, Webb, no rush! Sounds like you and your wife have a pretty good routine worked out. Around here, I do 99% of the cooking and my hubby does 99% of the clean-up. I reallllly like it that way!!!

Kelly
 
Hi again Kelly:

I have to tell you about my Minnesota-Weber connection.

I went to college in Minnesota and always vacationed up there during the summer, still do. In 1980 I was up at Little Swan Lake at my best friend Bob's cabin. We were getting ready to go water-skiing for the day when Bob came out of his cabin with a whole turkey in his hands. I watched from the boat as he tossed the bird on his 22" Weber Kettle, and popped the lid on. "What are you doing?", I asked. "Making turkey!", he said. "You'll burn it up dummy!", I insisted. "Just wait", he replied. After 4 hours we came back, I'd forgotten about the turkey. As we pulled into the dock the aroma hit me like a club. It was incredible! The whole area smelled like smoked turkey.

Being the 22 year old cavemen we were - the turkey never came off the grill. As friends showed up the turkey got dismantled until just the carcass was left for the raccoons. It was the beginning of my love for the kettle-style grill, and Weber. I've never made turkey any other way since, and my success rate is 100% . I honestly don't know if there's a more fool-proof meal out there.

My friend Bob died last year, but anyone who's ever grilled with me has heard this story. I won't ever forget how sure I was, that he was going to incinerate that turkey. How wrong I was. Someday I have to make a point of showing Bob's son how his Dad grilled a whole turkey while water-skiing all afternoon!

Weber Dave
 
Dave,

I'm so glad you shared your story! /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If you used to hang out at Little Swan Lake, then you no doubt know of Lake Charlotte in Long Prairie. Both my parents grew up in Long Prairie, and all of my grandparents lived there nearly their entire lives. My grandpa died this last March, but my Grandma on my mom's side is still living, and in fact is still living in the house on Lake Charlotte. I spent all of my summers on Lake Charlotte and I lived in Alexandria in 1980-1981.

Minnesota, and that part of the state in particular, have always been "home" to me. So much so, in fact, that my husband and I are going to move back there this coming July. Our original plan was to move into the lake house and keep it in the family, but at 88 years old, Grandma is really not showing any signs of slowing down (which is how I prefer it). So, we will probably move to Alexandria, since it's close and big enough that we should both be able to find work.

What wonderful memories you must have of those times and that areas. I'm glad you still go back. What fun it would be to have you over for a summer grill on the lake when we get moved! The house on Lake Charlotte has always been one of those "open to all" homes.

What was Bob's last name? My grandpa, Charles Robertson, was a volunteer firefighter for many, many years and knew every road in Todd County, including all the backroads and farm roads. He knew just about everyone and could tell the most wonderful stories about the people around there -- especially back 20, 30, 40, even 50 years ago when he was still active with the Fire Department.

I could go on and on.... how exciting to "meet" someone who knows those old stomping grounds. I can smell Bob's smoked turkey, and the lake, and the boat fuel too! What fun.

Kelly

P.S. Why bother to take it off the grill, just makes more dishes!! /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
 
Hey again Kelly:

My friend's name was Bob Haugen, but he was actually from Robinsdale, MN . They just had a cabin at the lake.

Actually, my family on my Dad's side was/is centered around Willmar & Spicer. My Uncle Earl Olsen is CEO of Jennie-O turkeys, so you could say the whole turkey thing is in my blood.

I have to admit that I don't know much of that area except for Green Lake, Lake Florida, and Rt.12 from the cities out to Willmar. It would be great to meet your family for some B.B.Q. next summer - doesn't that seem a hundred years away? I see snow on the horizon for us here in Chicago.

Good memory, adding the boat fuel to the mix of smells at the lake. Even the musty smell of wet life preservers come to mind.

It nice to "meet" you too.

Take good care,

Weber Dave
 
Hey Dave,

I just have to throw in a "wow, what a small world!" -- I have a great aunt who has lived in Robbinsdale forever!!!

Ah, wet life preservers. Can't forget that!

See ya next summer!

Kelly
 
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