Need a new knife


 

tmfast

TVWBB Super Fan
Maybe this is not the right discussion group, but it is the most active.
I am looking to buy a good quality 10" or longer all around chef knife. My old 1970’s “Yorktown” handles are falling apart. I have bought a few newer knives, but I always went back to my “yorkie”. I just did not like the newer store bought knives I recently bought. Anyone have any advice?
 
I hate it when you post about knives Kevin because I always want to spend money.
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All of the above. (Although I have slightly shorter versions, 8-9 inches.) Plus an 8-inch Global chefs. Chefs are my go-to knives. I find santokus too small as go-tos but I have a couple, plus honesukis, sujihikis, pettys, parings, etc., from the manufacturers above plus Glestain, Tasogata Hocho, Shun, Masahiro and a couple others. The only non-Japanese knives I have are butchering knives from Dexter Russell.

Yes, gotta bunch. But I use them all!
 
I would second any of the above knives. I have ordered from Korin in the past, and the service, price and selection is great. I bought a Ko-deba, that I love, but it is a bit too short for big tasks. I should have gotten out a ruler and measured the length stated on the website. The measurements were in cm, and it seemed long enough...

Great knife for all my veg prep though. Perfect mince, dice etc..
 
Adam--

For the knives at home I use magnetic bars. For those I carry on the road I use a knife case from Victorinox. (Here, the top one.)

I prefer magentic bars (in a home situation) because with one glance I can see all, and with one grab I can take whichever I want. No removing sheaths, no grabbing the wrong blade from a block, no drawers to open.
 
Kevin,

Not a surprise that you would like Japanese knives, they are without a doubt some of the best blades. We have tons of Japanese knives, I am not sure of the maker, since most all are stamped with their touchmark/kanji/hanko.

Are any of those blades laminated? What the Japanese are noted for is the ability to use a softer steel on the outside, sandwiching in a much harder, steel in the center. This laminate allows the use of a much harder steel, which retains the edge better...but since harder steel is more brittle, the soft steel allows for durability so it doesn't easily chip.

This style is common or knives, chisels, and other edge tools, in Japan.

Japan Woodworker has a decent selection of Japanese kitchen products also, check the Kitchen tab if anyone is interested.

All the knives we have were given to us by my Father-In-Law, which he bought in Japan. The place you linked to and Japan Woodworker both have prices that vary, so folks can find entry and/or high end cutlery, depending on how much they are willing to spend. My wife prefers a knife that flexes some, and we have some German knives that are very stiff and she doesn't like them.

I use blue steel chisels for my woodworking, they are xlnt tools and hold a decent edge.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are any of those blades laminated? What the Japanese are noted for is the ability to use a softer steel on the outside, sandwiching in a much harder, steel in the center. This laminate allows the use of a much harder steel, which retains the edge better...but since harder steel is more brittle, the soft steel allows for durability so it doesn't easily chip. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Correct--and yes. Here, the Tasogata Hocho blurb:

These finely crafted kitchen knives come from Tosa on Shikoku Island. This Region is much more rural and forested than other parts of Japan, and the blacksmiths still adhere to the old ways. The master blade-maker sandwiches a layer of Aogami Hagane (blue steel) between two pieces of soft wrought iron, and by hand very slowly hammers the blade into shape. Each blade is then individually tempered to Rockwell c63º. Blue steel gives these blades a tough, long-lasting edge unmatched by any Western made knife. The forging marks are left intact on the surface of the blade. The handles are made from Ho (A relative of the Magnolia) known for its longevity when exposed to water. Each Tosagata Hocho comes razor sharp, with instructions for maintaining this edge. Traditional Carbon Steel Cutlery

Note the (still very reasonable) prices.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Correct--and yes. Here, the Tasogata Hocho blurb:

These finely crafted kitchen knives come from Tosa on Shikoku Island. This Region is much more rural and forested than other parts of Japan, and the blacksmiths still adhere to the old ways. The master blade-maker sandwiches a layer of Aogami Hagane (blue steel) between two pieces of soft wrought iron, and by hand very slowly hammers the blade into shape. Each blade is then individually tempered to Rockwell c63º. Blue steel gives these blades a tough, long-lasting edge unmatched by any Western made knife. The forging marks are left intact on the surface of the blade. The handles are made from Ho (A relative of the Magnolia) known for its longevity when exposed to water. Each Tosagata Hocho comes razor sharp, with instructions for maintaining this edge. Traditional Carbon Steel Cutlery

Note the (still very reasonable) prices. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Quite the different process than the Damascus blades. Great info. Might have to add one or two of them to the arsenal.
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Kevin,

Funny you linked to that style of knife, it is more popular in Japan than America.

This utilitarian style of knife is very common in Japan, and the most common found in supermarkets, when I lived in Japan. We have several of these, my wife uses some deba and hocho style knives. It is a much better value than the modern knives, but most Americans would rather have the newer, sleeker styling. These utilitarian type knives are the traditional knives in Japan, and how knives were forged.

The newer style knives, such as the Masashiro, are a modern breed of knife, and we have many of this type also...seems swiss steel is pretty popular and there's several companies that the Japanese partner with, so it seems...with German steel also...and they make their own steel also...the Japanese are very astute when it comes to steel.

Bryan,

Damascus is similar in many cases, but what is called Damascus today is more in reference to the pattern welded designs. On the Japanese swords, one trick they used was to put clay on the blade, when tempering, so that the heat/cool would form a wavy type line. They even have a strange calculation for determining how many bodies a sword is capable of slicing through, like a 5 body sword would cost more than a 2 body sword...the clay is how they would get a 5 body sword, as I recall, without cracking.

But back to the blade, the clay would really do a similar job, at the weld, so that it didn't crack. The Japanese learned that when you laminate a harder steel in the center, between two more durable and softer pieces of steel, the blades have a tendency to crack when put under stress. By using the clay, and creating a wavy line, it creates a more durable weld after it is tempered and placed into stress. The concept is similar though. They still need to have a piece of harder steel in the center to be able to retain an edge. Some folks don't care for a harder edge either, it is more difficult to sharpen. Softer steel will get a sharper edge, for the same abrasive, but the harder steel will retain it's edge longer. It is a trade-off in some cases. There are folks that prefer the ease of sharpening and it's ability to hold a sharper edge, that they wouldn't want a laminated blade. Others would prefer to spend more time getting the edge, in order to retain it longer.

It is a tedious process to pattern weld, it is an art form...look at this knife from the Japan Woodworker site...(for folks that don't mine spending $2k on a knife
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alan D:
Bryan,

Damascus is similar in many cases, but what is called Damascus today is more in reference to the pattern welded designs. On the Japanese swords, one trick they used was to put clay on the blade, when tempering, so that the heat/cool would form a wavy type line. They even have a strange calculation for determining how many bodies a sword is capable of slicing through, like a 5 body sword would cost more than a 2 body sword...the clay is how they would get a 5 body sword, as I recall, without cracking.

But back to the blade, the clay would really do a similar job, at the weld, so that it didn't crack. The Japanese learned that when you laminate a harder steel in the center, between two more durable and softer pieces of steel, the blades have a tendency to crack when put under stress. By using the clay, and creating a wavy line, it creates a more durable weld after it is tempered and placed into stress. The concept is similar though. They still need to have a piece of harder steel in the center to be able to retain an edge. Some folks don't care for a harder edge either, it is more difficult to sharpen. Softer steel will get a sharper edge, for the same abrasive, but the harder steel will retain it's edge longer. It is a trade-off in some cases. There are folks that prefer the ease of sharpening and it's ability to hold a sharper edge, that they wouldn't want a laminated blade. Others would prefer to spend more time getting the edge, in order to retain it longer.

It is a tedious process to pattern weld, it is an art form. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Alan, I wouldn't really call it a "weld" it's a forging, hand hammered process. I own several Damasuc knives, and their beauty is stunning no doubt, along with their function and durability. My favorite Damasucs knife is my Shun, with the D handle, truely a work of art that knife is. It just feels so right in your hand.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bryan S:
Alan, I wouldn't really call it a "weld" it's a forging, hand hammered process. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>While it does require a LOT of forging, it also requires a LOT of welding, to produce pattern welded steel (or what is being called Damascus in this thread). The forging is the tedious part.
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Without welding, you would never be able to create a pattern, it is the 2 different steels that create the pattern, and the smith forges it down, cuts it in half, folds it, and welds it together in the forge using flux, most often borax. This process continues, and each time the billet is forged down and drawn out. In the end, the smith will need to weld a harder steel in the center, for the cutting edge.

The Shuns are very reasonable in price for pattern welded steel, not a lot of layers/folds, but still beautiful knives and the prices is excellent. I was checking out the 8" Chef knife.



While I like a longer knife for slicing, an 8" is a more useful size for me in the kitchen. I have a 10" Classic Wusthof that I use for meats. My wife didn't like it...
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(I just sharpened 6 knives for her
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EDIT: I just found out, we have knives for fish and knives for others...some of those deba style knives are only used for cutting sashimi...go figure...
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I've been wanting to get nice set of knives, so I appreciate the info here, guys.

However, until my wife learns to use something other than a plate, glass cutting board, or the granite counters to cut on, I'm stuck with the Cuisinart knives.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Chips:
That will dull and chip a knife quicker than anything. My heart goes out to you.
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you need to do is just get one good Chef's knife, sit her down and tell her "Now listen dear, this knife has a very sharp edge and will last a lifetime if properly used so until you can treat it with respect i.e. proper use & cleaning, this is not for your use."

-let us know how it goes.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James Davis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom Chips:
That will dull and chip a knife quicker than anything. My heart goes out to you.
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</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you need to do is just get one good Chef's knife, sit her down and tell her "Now listen dear, this knife has a very sharp edge and will last a lifetime if properly used so until you can treat it with respect i.e. proper use & cleaning, this is not for your use."

-let us know how it goes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZ3SC-gVvy0
 

 

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