Neapolitan pizza 🍕 dough, old school style


 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
The more I think about it, I think I've used both part skim and whole mozz.

here's a side tunnel off the dough rabbit hole...

excerpt: Fat and calories aside, the main difference between whole-milk and part-skim mozzarella is that the whole-milk version melts better, while part-skim browns faster. Neither is better; it really depends on what you want your cheese to do.

it's in Wisconian langauge. i can't read it. anything in Californian? jajajajajaja

i did drop a layer of pecorino romano, hand grated atop the sauce, then did the mozz, just for notes.

Go Niners. Beat the Pack. 13-10
 

Grant Cunningham

TVWBB Super Fan
I think the Costco one is galbani? I can check next time I buy it. I’ve used different brands in the past and that composition/style is consistently the same across many brands.
I'll check Costco the next time we're in. WMLM is sometimes a little hard to find in our area.

As to flavor, to me there's a definite, though not huge, difference between brands; I think Frigo (made by Saputo) tastes different than Galbani (I prefer the Frigo.) Even my wife noticed when I changed brands.
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
I'll check Costco the next time we're in. WMLM is sometimes a little hard to find in our area.

As to flavor, to me there's a definite, though not huge, difference between brands; I think Frigo (made by Saputo) tastes different than Galbani (I prefer the Frigo.) Even my wife noticed when I changed brands.
i agree. similar with slight variation. we only use the dry mozz on pizzas. we eat the fresh moxx with salads or breads. i even like Oaxaca cheese on pizza, again, slight flavor variation. https://www.thespruceeats.com/what-is-oaxaca-cheese-5085864

go with the one(s) you like most. question, are you using a steel or stone?

my notes for steel will offer some insights when using Caput Red Chef's flour and heat levels. i just need some time to write them to this board to post them.
 

Grant Cunningham

TVWBB Super Fan
question, are you using a steel or stone?

my notes for steel will offer some insights when using Caput Red Chef's flour and heat levels. i just need some time to write them to this board to post them.
I'm using a stone I've had for close to 20 years. Haven't cracked it yet.

I've thought about switching to a steel, but the only real benefit I see is being able to bake multiple pies in a row — which I never do, because it's just my wife and I. We make one pie per session, which is more than either of us really need. That being said, since I've been making better pizzas we've thought about having friends over to sample them, in which case I'd make multiple pies and could use a steel. So it's still under consideration.

The decision will probably be made by what my steel supplier quotes me next time I go to the metal yard!
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
I'm using a stone I've had for close to 20 years. Haven't cracked it yet.

I've thought about switching to a steel, but the only real benefit I see is being able to bake multiple pies in a row — which I never do, because it's just my wife and I. We make one pie per session, which is more than either of us really need. That being said, since I've been making better pizzas we've thought about having friends over to sample them, in which case I'd make multiple pies and could use a steel. So it's still under consideration.

The decision will probably be made by what my steel supplier quotes me next time I go to the metal yard!
you're 100% spot on with your perspective. the rebound time on steel is near zero and the stone does take recovery time.

i posted my steel dims and cost previously if that helps you out. it's really simple, not complex.

my cook last night was the trial run for hosting friends over for a few pizza and wine parties. i think i'm close dialing it in. there's a few small items i'll include, such as bottom vent setting, fuel source, top vent setting and specific steel temp data. this might be of value to you. feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions/concerns. I think you'll nail it. you're an accomplished chef from what i've seen here.
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
Postmortem notes on this cook:

Dough - near excellent recipe, must go 48 hours on ferment, 4 days should be even better. countertop proof method was successful. if inside kitchen temps are above 75-80 degrees in home, countertop proof of 7 hours was sufficient. in lower kitchen temps, could countertop ferment longer before balling and fridging balls in containers.

Making dough balls, 248g balls yielded a nice 12" pie, lending more to a NY style crust versus a thicker, traditional Neapolitan crust. Neo crust could be a 10" pie shell with a larger crust and thin middle for fast cook. Use as little oil as possible on containers. i used three drop and will attempt 1 drop next time and wipe with paper towel versus silicon brush for lubing the bowl. remove as much air from bowl before fridging containers with dough inside them. MUST make as tight a dough ball as you can before fridging balls.

E6 settings - used KPro as i wanted a lower heat fuel versus JD lump which i know burns hotter from experience. lower bottom vent started in 60% open position after coals were lit and grate and steel were placed onto grill. set steel offset to left side for easy grate flip up panel access to add wood chips right before pie was decked onto steel. top vent was 100%. must experiment with top vent closed 80-90% to retain more heat and smoke when pie is cooking. added a few wood chips right as pizza was decked onto steel. this method worked well for smoke flavor.

steel temps - i am finding that steep temps (average temps across the steel) around 540-600 yields best cook results. each pie cooked in 4-5 minutes. when steel went above 600, as in 3rd pie, cook time decreased to 3 to 4 minutes. i noticed the crust was less brown when pizza cooked more quickly, thus recco keeping steel at 550 degree could be sweet spot on this cooker/cook/method/vents settings. the hotter the steel the faster the cook and the more the Caputo Red Chef's 00 will burn. Red 00 is truly at its max cook temp at 600 degrees. avoid higher temps if using 100% Red bag 00. Caputo Blue bag 00 can handle higher temps but can only ferment for 24 hours. no experiments done with Caputo Blue 00 yet, just these notes to track future cooks

sauce - used Cento crushed toms in can. do not over add water to crushed toms, no more than 1-2 tablespoons. added a small amount of EVOO, gran garlic, dried oregano and kosher salt. salt to flavor profile/taste. do not oversalt as cheese has a lot of salt in it.

sliced raw tomatoes - don't use as a topping. must oven dry/roast any fresh toms to be used as topping. too much moisture given off and made pie #2 mushy on top while cooked on bottom.

peel - used Caputo semolina to dust raw dough balls before shaping and on the wooden peel. gently shake pie after sauced and cheesed to ensure pizza can launch easily. zero fails on launch in this cook using this pre-shake method.

cook time - at 3 min mark, set by timer, rotated pie on steel to ensure no hot/burn spots. 3 mins is the earliest pie will release from steel with pie having shape and enough body to withstand aluminum turner under pie and atop the steel. watch for even cooking of cheese. Neo pizza won't cook cheese like NY style in these cook time frames so final cheese color will be more white than tan. once steel temps went above 600 degrees, cooking became more difficult for this recipe. pizza bottoms were quickly more quickly and less top cooking was taking place. this could possibly be compensated by closing top vent to keep more heat in chamber/dome. DO NOT OPEN DOME for first 3 mins minimum. even 3.5 mins would be okay to keep lid down if steel start temps are 550 or so.

hope this helps anyone seeking to cook this and or use steel to cook pizzas on a grill. overall results are that I'm satisfied with current progress and results. major key to success was overall grill temp on the E6, keeping lower vent at 60% to start and then micro open increments if you need to raise internal and steel temps. if you open bottom vent too far, the steel temps will run away from you. STEEL retains massive heat. it is an excellent heat conductor and doesn't lose heat, if any at all, during each pizza pie cook, which is very unlike stone, from my experiences over the years.

mangia! post your pics if you make some of these please.
 

Rich G

TVWBB Platinum Member
Postmortem notes on this cook:

Dough - near excellent recipe, must go 48 hours on ferment, 4 days should be even better. countertop proof method was successful. if inside kitchen temps are above 75-80 degrees in home, countertop proof of 7 hours was sufficient. in lower kitchen temps, could countertop ferment longer before balling and fridging balls in containers.

Making dough balls, 248g balls yielded a nice 12" pie, lending more to a NY style crust versus a thicker, traditional Neapolitan crust. Neo crust could be a 10" pie shell with a larger crust and thin middle for fast cook. Use as little oil as possible on containers. i used three drop and will attempt 1 drop next time and wipe with paper towel versus silicon brush for lubing the bowl. remove as much air from bowl before fridging containers with dough inside them. MUST make as tight a dough ball as you can before fridging balls.

E6 settings - used KPro as i wanted a lower heat fuel versus JD lump which i know burns hotter from experience. lower bottom vent started in 60% open position after coals were lit and grate and steel were placed onto grill. set steel offset to left side for easy grate flip up panel access to add wood chips right before pie was decked onto steel. top vent was 100%. must experiment with top vent closed 80-90% to retain more heat and smoke when pie is cooking. added a few wood chips right as pizza was decked onto steel. this method worked well for smoke flavor.

steel temps - i am finding that steep temps (average temps across the steel) around 540-600 yields best cook results. each pie cooked in 4-5 minutes. when steel went above 600, as in 3rd pie, cook time decreased to 3 to 4 minutes. i noticed the crust was less brown when pizza cooked more quickly, thus recco keeping steel at 550 degree could be sweet spot on this cooker/cook/method/vents settings. the hotter the steel the faster the cook and the more the Caputo Red Chef's 00 will burn. Red 00 is truly at its max cook temp at 600 degrees. avoid higher temps if using 100% Red bag 00. Caputo Blue bag 00 can handle higher temps but can only ferment for 24 hours. no experiments done with Caputo Blue 00 yet, just these notes to track future cooks

sauce - used Cento crushed toms in can. do not over add water to crushed toms, no more than 1-2 tablespoons. added a small amount of EVOO, gran garlic, dried oregano and kosher salt. salt to flavor profile/taste. do not oversalt as cheese has a lot of salt in it.

sliced raw tomatoes - don't use as a topping. must oven dry/roast any fresh toms to be used as topping. too much moisture given off and made pie #2 mushy on top while cooked on bottom.

peel - used Caputo semolina to dust raw dough balls before shaping and on the wooden peel. gently shake pie after sauced and cheesed to ensure pizza can launch easily. zero fails on launch in this cook using this pre-shake method.

cook time - at 3 min mark, set by timer, rotated pie on steel to ensure no hot/burn spots. 3 mins is the earliest pie will release from steel with pie having shape and enough body to withstand aluminum turner under pie and atop the steel. watch for even cooking of cheese. Neo pizza won't cook cheese like NY style in these cook time frames so final cheese color will be more white than tan. once steel temps went above 600 degrees, cooking became more difficult for this recipe. pizza bottoms were quickly more quickly and less top cooking was taking place. this could possibly be compensated by closing top vent to keep more heat in chamber/dome. DO NOT OPEN DOME for first 3 mins minimum. even 3.5 mins would be okay to keep lid down if steel start temps are 550 or so.

hope this helps anyone seeking to cook this and or use steel to cook pizzas on a grill. overall results are that I'm satisfied with current progress and results. major key to success was overall grill temp on the E6, keeping lower vent at 60% to start and then micro open increments if you need to raise internal and steel temps. if you open bottom vent too far, the steel temps will run away from you. STEEL retains massive heat. it is an excellent heat conductor and doesn't lose heat, if any at all, during each pizza pie cook, which is very unlike stone, from my experiences over the years.

mangia! post your pics if you make some of these please.
Great notes, Brett.....I'll refer back to this in the future for sure!
 

Ed P

TVWBB Emerald Member
Postmortem notes on this cook:

Dough - near excellent recipe, must go 48 hours on ferment, 4 days should be even better. countertop proof method was successful. if inside kitchen temps are above 75-80 degrees in home, countertop proof of 7 hours was sufficient. in lower kitchen temps, could countertop ferment longer before balling and fridging balls in containers.

Making dough balls, 248g balls yielded a nice 12" pie, lending more to a NY style crust versus a thicker, traditional Neapolitan crust. Neo crust could be a 10" pie shell with a larger crust and thin middle for fast cook. Use as little oil as possible on containers. i used three drop and will attempt 1 drop next time and wipe with paper towel versus silicon brush for lubing the bowl. remove as much air from bowl before fridging containers with dough inside them. MUST make as tight a dough ball as you can before fridging balls.

E6 settings - used KPro as i wanted a lower heat fuel versus JD lump which i know burns hotter from experience. lower bottom vent started in 60% open position after coals were lit and grate and steel were placed onto grill. set steel offset to left side for easy grate flip up panel access to add wood chips right before pie was decked onto steel. top vent was 100%. must experiment with top vent closed 80-90% to retain more heat and smoke when pie is cooking. added a few wood chips right as pizza was decked onto steel. this method worked well for smoke flavor.

steel temps - i am finding that steep temps (average temps across the steel) around 540-600 yields best cook results. each pie cooked in 4-5 minutes. when steel went above 600, as in 3rd pie, cook time decreased to 3 to 4 minutes. i noticed the crust was less brown when pizza cooked more quickly, thus recco keeping steel at 550 degree could be sweet spot on this cooker/cook/method/vents settings. the hotter the steel the faster the cook and the more the Caputo Red Chef's 00 will burn. Red 00 is truly at its max cook temp at 600 degrees. avoid higher temps if using 100% Red bag 00. Caputo Blue bag 00 can handle higher temps but can only ferment for 24 hours. no experiments done with Caputo Blue 00 yet, just these notes to track future cooks

sauce - used Cento crushed toms in can. do not over add water to crushed toms, no more than 1-2 tablespoons. added a small amount of EVOO, gran garlic, dried oregano and kosher salt. salt to flavor profile/taste. do not oversalt as cheese has a lot of salt in it.

sliced raw tomatoes - don't use as a topping. must oven dry/roast any fresh toms to be used as topping. too much moisture given off and made pie #2 mushy on top while cooked on bottom.

peel - used Caputo semolina to dust raw dough balls before shaping and on the wooden peel. gently shake pie after sauced and cheesed to ensure pizza can launch easily. zero fails on launch in this cook using this pre-shake method.

cook time - at 3 min mark, set by timer, rotated pie on steel to ensure no hot/burn spots. 3 mins is the earliest pie will release from steel with pie having shape and enough body to withstand aluminum turner under pie and atop the steel. watch for even cooking of cheese. Neo pizza won't cook cheese like NY style in these cook time frames so final cheese color will be more white than tan. once steel temps went above 600 degrees, cooking became more difficult for this recipe. pizza bottoms were quickly more quickly and less top cooking was taking place. this could possibly be compensated by closing top vent to keep more heat in chamber/dome. DO NOT OPEN DOME for first 3 mins minimum. even 3.5 mins would be okay to keep lid down if steel start temps are 550 or so.

hope this helps anyone seeking to cook this and or use steel to cook pizzas on a grill. overall results are that I'm satisfied with current progress and results. major key to success was overall grill temp on the E6, keeping lower vent at 60% to start and then micro open increments if you need to raise internal and steel temps. if you open bottom vent too far, the steel temps will run away from you. STEEL retains massive heat. it is an excellent heat conductor and doesn't lose heat, if any at all, during each pizza pie cook, which is very unlike stone, from my experiences over the years.

mangia! post your pics if you make some of these please.
Very nice, great detail! Thanks, Brett!
 

Brett-EDH

TVWBB Guru
Last time I went to whole paycheck they had none. No red, no blue no semolina.
check online before you go. inventory is very near real time. and i'll call Corti bros first to confirm stock before i drive down. and getting their italian meats sandwich is the bonus part of the drive.
 

 

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