Natural gas grill question


 
J

JimV

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Hello all. I rarely work with NG's but occasionally the deal is just too good to pass up. I clean them up and sell them but I do not hook them up due to the potential liability. Recently I sold a E 315 Gen II very nice grill and the buyer hooked it up. He said he had to scale down the fitting size from 1/2 to 3/8? He is reporting low flame.......thus I am assuming fuel flow issue. Ironically I just picked up another Gen II NG and dragged it home tonight. At $100 I figured worst case scenario I could use it to resolve the other NG grills issue. When loading it up I noticed what looked like a regulator at the connection point on the grill. I snapped a pic to show you guys. My question is.....do some NG's come with this box and some dont......or do they all need this unit? Is this unit the NG regulator? Can they work without one? I dont recall the old school NG's using this. Thank you
 

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Yes that is a regulator. IDK what was on or not on the grill you sold. But, yeah some of the grills which have heavier gas flow seem to use a NG regulator. I think it's to prevent surges on the line. Especially if the grill is in a high consumption mode
 
Thanks Larry. Ya I was wondering how the gas flow was metered. I figured the house line must be regulated somehow. I assume you need one or the other. I will check with my customer to see if his grill has this....its been several weeks since I sold that grill and I just cant remember
 
Oh yeah the gas prior to your meter is awfully high pressure. A number of years ago guy across the street from me fancied himself an equipment operator. He had an ag machine business and he wanted to bury a downspout from his gutter. So he brings a Ditch Witch to the house, not knowing where the gas feed line is. Of course he proceeds to cut right through the gas line. You should have seen the clouds of gas coming out of there. And blowing so hard it was blowing the dirt out of the hole. He created a VERY dangerous situation. Anyway the house is regulated down to 7" WC
 
@JimV

NG four burner and six burner front control genesis 2011 to 2016 had a regulator inside. Three burner including three plus sear did not.

Not sure about the Genesis II line.
 
Thanks Dan........The grill I sold was a Gen II E315 NG closed cabinet and I do not recall it having said regulator. The irony is that the Gen II E310 NG that I dragged home tonight did have the dang regulator which makes no sense to me.....that said the owner of the 310 that I dragged home tonight had done some fiddling w the grill. I hate when they fiddle :) .... I looked up the schematic for the Gen II E 315NG and I did not see the regulator.....I will head over to this guys house and put eyes on the situation......the gray gas hose was disconnected for a while when not in use....maybe a spider made a home in there. I will try multiple gray hoses.......I will bring a propane tank and a regulator for a very quick show to the customer that the grill works......its just gas flow. Yes I will be careful when hooking to a reg and a tank.....quick to low setting......get my cigar lit then back off again.......yes I am kidding :)
 
DanHoo said:
@JimV

NG four burner and six burner front control genesis 2011 to 2016 had a regulator inside. Three burner including three plus sear did not.

Not sure about the Genesis II line.
Click to expand...
Hey Dan.....I have a question for you. Now that I have the second NG Gen II I am going to convert it because propane just sells so much faster. To me your write up regarding the valves was pure gold and very easy to understand. Just for fun I was watching about 10 youtube vids regarding converting from one fuel source to the other. I even watched a This Old House video about it and they all forget to mention the valve body cone that is jetted as well. So my question is......I believe your conclusion was that you have to swap the cones and the orifices for it to be a correct fuel source swap. Are we saying that by not swapping the cones that the burner is not properly tuned thus not burning 100% clean? Thats what I am thinking. I was surprised to see the flame in some of those vids looked pretty darn good....I was wondering if it was possible for the orifice to sort of override the valve body cone. I am about to convert this gen II and I am going to try the cones from the older Genesis 300 series vs Gen II cones because thats what I have in stock. I will compare them closely to see if they are identical or not.
 
@JimV

TL;dr. I would replace the entire valve, not just the inner cone. IMO the valve is the matched set of body, cone, orifice etc. and it is machined to work together.

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Let me start with I am not an expert on this, but I think I get the basics. Fuel + Air at the correct ratio == a clean burn. doesn't matter if it is LP or NG.

I have no idea if the inner cones of a Genny II will work on a Genesis 300 or not or vice versa. My thoughts are a valve body and the cone are machined as one, but I don't really know.

I'd compare them closely and test low temps as well as high.

btw, the thread Jim is referring to is here:

DanHoo

Thread 'E330 NG and LP manifold and valve side by side comparison'

I finally found an original 2016 Genesis E330 LP manifold for a fair price. AR date code.

Last year I converted my E330 NG to LP using orifices and a regulator as I could not find a manifold in stock anywhere. It is also a 2016 AR date code.

I have the original NG orifices and hose from my E330NG. I had given them away but they were never used so I have them once again.

My plan is to compare the two manifolds and valves and orifices side by side including the internals.

Notes:

1. There is already an excellent post documenting valve differences. There is a great deal of...
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The cones and valve bodies in a perfect world are machined to match up. In real world? I kind of doubt it. I know when working on a grill, I know I have had more than one valve opened up and more than likely mixed them up.
 
Thanks Dan. I went back and was skimming through the original post......its a wormhole for sure. I note that many folks on the Youtube video's that attempted conversions by just doing the orifice would complain about no flame adjustment after their conversion. I am thinking they most likely bought the wrong regulator in addition to not replacing the valve body cones thus she just runs wide open. Ok I will get to tinkering....thanks for the info!
 
LMichaels said:
The cones and valve bodies in a perfect world are machined to match up. In real world? I kind of doubt it. I know when working on a grill, I know I have had more than one valve opened up and more than likely mixed them up.
Click to expand...
Maybe what I wrote wasn't what I intended. I'm not talking about individual valve cones and bodies, but a MFG run of valve bodies and cones that get assembled as a finished valve.
 
JimV said:
Thanks Dan. I went back and was skimming through the original post......its a wormhole for sure. I note that many folks on the Youtube video's that attempted conversions by just doing the orifice would complain about no flame adjustment after their conversion. I am thinking they most likely bought the wrong regulator in addition to not replacing the valve body cones thus she just runs wide open. Ok I will get to tinkering....thanks for the info!
Click to expand...
Mic the two cones at three spots. They might be the same. If close give it a try.

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If the valves are made by different companies (as may actually happen with Weber) then I would not trust it. Not even with a micrometer in hand. If there is a mfgr stamp/mark and the bodies of the valves are same company they should work
 
@JimV My curiosity is getting the better of me.

Amazon lists this for the compatibility of the valve below: For Weber Genesis 300 Series(2011-2016) & Genesis II E-210 / E-310 / E-410

If you have valves from a 300 series that have the gas of choice ( NG or LP ) why don't you just swap the entire valve and not mess around with the internals? The valves are super easy to remove. you don't even have to remove the manifold.

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Now thats very interesting. The link is saying that its the same valve for the older 300's and the Gen II's.......very interesting. $33 per valve.....plus a $20 regulator.....that stings a little but would be done correctly. Well you wouldnt believe this but my metal guy stopped by today and unloaded 3 grills on me......and sure enough I got yet another NG this time a monster 435 Gen II....possibly an LX...it has twist start and lighted knobs.....I definitely want to convert that one.
 
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