"Natural" Beef Pork


 
J

John Furdyn

TVWBB Pro
Anyone have any thoughts on weather "Natural"
Beef (chuck Roast) and Pork (Butts) are better or worse on the WSM cooker.

I have a meat market in my area tha advertises all natural beef and pork products.

Any inputs/ideas appreciated.

Thanks
 
As far as beef is concerned the only differences I've noticed are between USDA grades and whether the beef is grain-fed or grass-fed. "Natural" or not doesn't seem to have any effect across those categories. I assume that a "natural" cow can be fed anything and made to any grade of beef.

Personally I prefer USDA Choice grain-fed beef. It's fattier and therefore more tasty, I think.

If the meat's not labeled as "organic" then I think that "natural" just refers to a lack of added hormones and possibly no processed food.

I can't really speak as to what "all natural pork" means. or the differences it might make.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Anyone have any thoughts on weather "Natural"
Beef (chuck Roast) and Pork (Butts) are better or worse on the WSM cooker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the quick answer is yes. That being said...Better tasting, better for you (healthier)?...that's a subjective question. It's my understanding that the natural label on meat is a voluntary standard. Basically, it means that "livestock used for the production of meat and meat products have been raised entirely without growth promotants, antibiotics (except for ionophores used as coccidiostats for parasite control), and have never been fed animal by-products."
It should be healthier (better) and I don't believe any chemicals or animal by-products improve the flavor of meat. That's my 2 cents.

Paul
 
I get a lot of my beef from the local farmers market and all is natural pasture raised, while not as tender, the flavor is fantastic. I believe that the lipid profile is better as well, but I would have to check. I think I read something by Kevin K awhile back on this.
 
This is a topic that really gets me going. I am a pig farmer, I raise approx 3000 market hogs a year. While I don't raise all my hogs "naturally", as in no medications, the medications that are used are to protect/maintain the health of the animal. Unfortunately, pigs cant tell us what they are feeling, as a herdsperson that would give us a much easier job of diagnosing what the problems are. The hogs that I raise are fed medication for a very short period of time ( 1 week) after they are weaned, in the winter only. This has more to do with environment and temperature, than it does to the fact that the pigs are sick. I think we can all agree that nobody wants a pig, or any animal to suffer or get sick.

Medications all cost money, and the time that where if the label say that 1 is good, then 2 must be even better and 3 will really make it great is passed. Any medication that is given to the animal carries a withdrawal time that must be adhered to, or you risk losing the ability to ship your hogs as they will be quarantined. Farmers, like any other business person, need to be mindful of all inputs, and would not unnecessarily needle/medicate their hogs, unless there wil be a benefit from this practice.

From the 3000 hogs a year that I raise, if 100 have been medicated after being weaned for 2 weeks(3.3%)that would be all. To say that all hogs on farms are medicated, and that organic is the only good pork for you, that is a far fetched misunderstanding. 97% of the pork that I raise is free from needles and other antibiotics after weaning.

In response to your original question about "natural' pork, I personally feel that it is unecessary to pay the extra premium that is associated with this product, I know the system, and traditional pork and beef is safe.
 
Dave K

I believe everything you said.

Maybe my original question wasn't all that clear.

I was wondering if the final product would have better or Worse, "taste/tenderness/jucyness etc.
Might one be easier or more difficult to cook to obtain the above.

I was overlooking the saftey issue.


I'm certainly not the mose articulate person on this forum.
 
Honestly every animal is going to vary regardless of the method of raising them. Maybe one is overactive and builds more muscle... another could be lazy and builds more fat. Who really knows. To label all one way or the other is non-sense. Probably the best person to ask would be your butcher. Often they can lead you to something leaner or more marbled depending on your needs or tastes.

Personally I like to talk to my butcher and try to support local producers as much as I can. To me local is more important then organic.
 
Butchers know little when it comes to animal husbandry. If you have one that does he is the exception, not the rule.

In the commercial pork world, no, very few animals are different from each other --and that's the point. I know many pig farmers, some near me, and each does things the way it works best for him. But huge commercial pig facilities are a different thing. In mass produced pork few animals move much at all --they are not frolicking about the farm-- as movement is restricted. The hybrid breeds used are standardized, feed is standardized, the facilities themselves are standardized --all to make production fast and 'efficient'. Commercial pork production here (I am not talking about Dave in Canada who can speak for himself and how he does it) is frightening; disgusting, actually, to me, which is why I shy from mass market pork.

The issue of 'natural' v. standard is one that concerns several issues, not the least of which is the use of feeds laced with sub-therapeutic doses of antibiotics as the standard. This has been going on for a long time and is one reason why some researchers think antibiotic-resistant bacteria have taken off. (If one looks at the rise in mas market pork production facilities in terms of date and location it is hard to miss the corollary of increased antibiotic-resistant bacteria, which are usually evidenced in these areas first, then spread. See this very recent op-ed on MRSA, from two days ago, here.)

I too support local producers --but I ask about what they feed and how, and look at their facilities. I don't buy from those who raise their animals like industrial producers do --animals inside for their whole lives, little movement, etc. When on the road and not near a farmer I can buy directly from I'll buy natural over standard or, preferably, organic over anything else. The laws for organic production are stricter.

Though beef production is not fraught with the horrid conditions of industrial pork production, thankfully, I do the same when it comes to beef. Not interested in hormone- or antibiotic-laced feeds so I buy local from ranchers I know (or get to know) first, natural or organic if buying at the store.

I am not telling anyone else to buy. I do think people should look at and learn where their food comes from and how it is produced, then make decisions that best suit them. An image of pigs rolling in the grass, playing in the sun (pigs are very playful), the farmer doling out feed from his fields is erroneous, at the very least in terms of how the vast, vast majority of commercial pork in this country is produced. (Google industrial pork production and look for sites with videos, taken by hidden camera (the operations are very hush-hush), of the realities if pork production. In years past I had the rather unfortunate reality of having to visit several on a somewhat regular basis --and that's why I don't buy mass market pork.)
 
Kevin

Good to see you back in the "Saddle" again.

Thanks for your response, as usual it's not only informitive, but makes one think also.
Which is a good thing.

I think I might look at the possibility of buying some locally raised pork.

Happy smoking !!!
 
Thanks, John.

Take a look here. For others not in Penn, see here, then click on your state on the map. At the page that appears next you can read about area producers. At the top of the page you can click the link that will take you to a Google page that shows the locations of each farmer/rancher in the state chosen. Very handy. Some growers ship, others sell only at their farms, others sell via farmers markets.
 
Kevin, I don't want to start a pissing match, and I realize that it is a long way from Southern Florida to Southern Ontario, and practices on farms will vary widely from here to there, but to say that all commercial pork production is frightenining and scary is like saying that all truck drivers got their licence over the internet, and have never driven a truck before that. I'm not saying that all truck drivers are bad, But some should not be driving. In the same way, some pig farmers should not be allowed to have pigs either.
Like you mentioned in your post, you can't speak for the way that I raise my pigs, however I dont raise my pigs any different than any other of my neighbours that have pigs. The fact that our pigs are raised indoors has more to do with environmental conditions in this part of the country, namely fall, winter, and spring, where conditions can be cool, wet to darn right freezing that it would be inhumane to leave the animals outside in this weather, they would freeze off their ears, and the little pigs would freeze to death. Not exactly a plus as far as consumer relations go.

If you ever get that big rig north of the border, feel free to come and tour my farm, however please note that for biosecurity reasons you will be asked to shower before you come in the barn, we wouldn't wnat the pigs to catch anything where the health is compromised.
 
video's like described above are awfully hard to watch, I just can't take it or watch it, its a shame. I just seen two week old pigs at my buddies house the other day.
 
One great thing about mass media today is the ability to quickly spread "news" around the world, and it can be kept on file and revived for years to come. However, this is also its greatest downfall. One video, from one farm somewhere in the world, can send a bad message for all farms in the world, just like a picture of a polluting factory can make someone think that all factories pollute, or a video of crime in some major city makes one think that all metro areas are crime ridden. Not necessarily the case in all instances. Just because you seen on YouTube, doesn't mean that happens on all factories, farms, or cities.

Dan, you mentioned that you just seen two week old pigs at your buddies place. I'm guessing that they were fed well, and properly cared for, or you wouldn't have referenced them in your post.
 
Industrial pork production has been around for some time. Before the advent of the Net and YouTube. This is a fact. One is entitled to one's own opinion (and I clearly expressed mine. One is not entitled to one's own facts.

That some non-industrial pork producers use other methods is not in dispute. But the standards of industrial pork production is not in dispute either: Animals that are kept confined in buildings, they are fed antibiotic-laced feed, they are grown as rapidly as possible; this is the norm. There are reams of data supporting this and many, like me, who have delivered the feed to the facilities and have seen them in action. The Net only made it more possible that the public would get clued in, and helped to make non-industrial production --with high standards, strict guidelines as to feed and the use of antibiotics, strict guidelines as to the non-confinement of animals, etc.-- a reality for some.

Niman Ranch, e.g., was instrumental in publicizing their standards and, as they grew, developing a network of growers that contract to them and that adhere to the same standards. Their are other companies/brands out there that do this as well and, of course, small producers who have set high standards for their production from the get-go. Prices for higher standard meat are higher than mass market stuff but have come down, relative to where they started, as public interest has grown and availability has spread. It's out there. It's available. Whether anyone wants to purchase it is up to them. I do --and have stated my reasons for doing so.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they are fed antibiotic-laced feed </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Again , just an assumption that all pigs are fed that way, they are not. Lots of commercial farms raise there hogs without mass medication. You have your opinion, I have mine, I respect your comments, but I will leave it at this. Keep on truckin, have a good day
 
Kevin

Thanks for the link, I actually found 2 pork producers within a 12-18 mile distance from my house. Sent emails to both of them.

I didn't think anybody raise pigs anyomore around my area.

Fifty years ago, (when I was a kid),I used to help my uncle, butcher a pig every now and then, on his small farm. And remember my aunt making sausage in casing, and frying it right up, man that was good.

Thanks again everyone for their inputs.
 
Again, that industrial pork producers (not merely 'commercial' producers, as I have already stated--and I never said 'all'; my comments are limited to factory pig farming in this regard) feed sub-therapeutic doses as a matter of course is not an opinion, it is a fact. I have an opinion about this fact, which I have stated, but the fact remains. Others might have different opinions about how they feel about this but the fact remains.

Industrial producers are required out of necessity to feed antibiotics because of this confinement at high stocking density; rampant pesticide use is required as well, for the same reason.
 
Just to put 2 pennies into this..

We all know that in EVERY industry there is a push to produce cheaper and cheaper. MASSIVE industrial farms have resulted from the drive for cheaper food. Rational thought would say that it's probbly not "healthy" to raise any animal in this density. Animals in these environments REQUIRE medication... it's not optional. Never forget that these large companies are in it for $$$$$$ and medication isn't free. If they could, they wouldn't give them a drop.

When I say "Get to know your butcher", what i mean is that you should ask 1) where was it raised 2)where is it slaughtered. They should know these answers and it allows YOU the consumer to make a decision.
 
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