Mushy Pulled Pork?
- Thread starter Rita Y
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Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rita Y:
Chris Lampson on another thread piqued my curiosity by mentioning mushy pulled pork and I don't recall seeing a discussion about this. What causes this? Not probing soon enough? Too much resting time in a cooler?
Rita </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You got it, Rita.
By overcooking on the pit or by holding too hot for too long in a cooler you'll get mushy AND dry bbq.
It sounds like rather subjective judgements, but on the other hand, maybe not. For instance, let's say you keep a pork butt hot for four hours after cooking on the pit to pulled pork tenderness. I mean truly cooked long enough on the pit where the fat cap mostly stays on the rack and you almost need three hands to remove the butt. Well, if you open the foil after "resting" and there is a lot of drippings in the foil, what does that tell you? Also, if when pulling you find very little in the terms of fat and connective tissue left to pull out, to me that would be another sign that the butt ended up overcooked, and this also could have happened from holding too long in the foil, not necessarily from overcooking on the pit. Gary Wiviott makes great suggestions in his book like cooking one for supper and the other for 45 minutes more to compare the difference. Hope this helps.
Chris Lampson on another thread piqued my curiosity by mentioning mushy pulled pork and I don't recall seeing a discussion about this. What causes this? Not probing soon enough? Too much resting time in a cooler?
Rita </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You got it, Rita.
By overcooking on the pit or by holding too hot for too long in a cooler you'll get mushy AND dry bbq.
It sounds like rather subjective judgements, but on the other hand, maybe not. For instance, let's say you keep a pork butt hot for four hours after cooking on the pit to pulled pork tenderness. I mean truly cooked long enough on the pit where the fat cap mostly stays on the rack and you almost need three hands to remove the butt. Well, if you open the foil after "resting" and there is a lot of drippings in the foil, what does that tell you? Also, if when pulling you find very little in the terms of fat and connective tissue left to pull out, to me that would be another sign that the butt ended up overcooked, and this also could have happened from holding too long in the foil, not necessarily from overcooking on the pit. Gary Wiviott makes great suggestions in his book like cooking one for supper and the other for 45 minutes more to compare the difference. Hope this helps.
Chris E
TVWBB Pro
I did a couple 9lb butts this weekend using the high heat method from the cooking topics on this site.
When they hit 195 and I opened the foil there was a lot of liquid in there but they seemed fine. Bone had a tiny bit of tug and not ready to pull right out. The second but did start to fall apart when lifting it off.
I rested 30 min wrapped in foil and got more juice. It wasn't mushy but there were a couple "big" muscle sections that could have been slightly more done for pulling. I was chopping that night so it worked out. Also I think I'll select smaller butts but when I'm standing there at Sam's starving I usually grab the big ones. LOL
Is it normal to get this much liquid when resting? Maybe it was because of HH method?
When they hit 195 and I opened the foil there was a lot of liquid in there but they seemed fine. Bone had a tiny bit of tug and not ready to pull right out. The second but did start to fall apart when lifting it off.
I rested 30 min wrapped in foil and got more juice. It wasn't mushy but there were a couple "big" muscle sections that could have been slightly more done for pulling. I was chopping that night so it worked out. Also I think I'll select smaller butts but when I'm standing there at Sam's starving I usually grab the big ones. LOL
Is it normal to get this much liquid when resting? Maybe it was because of HH method?
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris E:
I did a couple 9lb butts this weekend using the high heat method from the cooking topics on this site.
When they hit 195 and I opened the foil there was a lot of liquid in there but they seemed fine. Bone had a tiny bit of tug and not ready to pull right out. The second but did start to fall apart when lifting it off.
I rested 30 min wrapped in foil and got more juice. It wasn't mushy but there were a couple "big" muscle sections that could have been slightly more done for pulling. I was chopping that night so it worked out. Also I think I'll select smaller butts but when I'm standing there at Sam's starving I usually grab the big ones. LOL
Is it normal to get this much liquid when resting? Maybe it was because of HH method? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chris, just to be clear: my point was that meat drippings come from meat that's cooking. If the butts aren't truly tender yet and you wrap hot in foil, drippings left in the foil are to be expected because the meat needed to cook more. I'm just trying to differentiate "resting" (where residual cooking is minimized) and holding hot so that the meat keeps on cooking, albeit at a slower rate. It's a variable I'd rather not introduce, but a lot of folks cook to 190*, hold hot for several hours, and then are happy with the results.
I did a couple 9lb butts this weekend using the high heat method from the cooking topics on this site.
When they hit 195 and I opened the foil there was a lot of liquid in there but they seemed fine. Bone had a tiny bit of tug and not ready to pull right out. The second but did start to fall apart when lifting it off.
I rested 30 min wrapped in foil and got more juice. It wasn't mushy but there were a couple "big" muscle sections that could have been slightly more done for pulling. I was chopping that night so it worked out. Also I think I'll select smaller butts but when I'm standing there at Sam's starving I usually grab the big ones. LOL
Is it normal to get this much liquid when resting? Maybe it was because of HH method? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chris, just to be clear: my point was that meat drippings come from meat that's cooking. If the butts aren't truly tender yet and you wrap hot in foil, drippings left in the foil are to be expected because the meat needed to cook more. I'm just trying to differentiate "resting" (where residual cooking is minimized) and holding hot so that the meat keeps on cooking, albeit at a slower rate. It's a variable I'd rather not introduce, but a lot of folks cook to 190*, hold hot for several hours, and then are happy with the results.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Additional moisture, something butts don't really need. Injections, foiling during cooking (preventing drippings), adding liquids to the foil during resting - these sorts of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never had an injection make the meat mushy, but yeah, pans or foil and AJ will definately do it too. I guess some folks like that kind of "mushy" though since it's not the "dry mushy" you get from overcooking.
Additional moisture, something butts don't really need. Injections, foiling during cooking (preventing drippings), adding liquids to the foil during resting - these sorts of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never had an injection make the meat mushy, but yeah, pans or foil and AJ will definately do it too. I guess some folks like that kind of "mushy" though since it's not the "dry mushy" you get from overcooking.
I've done about 25 to 30 rubbed (no liquid or foil) large butts per year for a few years. They are usually close to falling apart when I take them from the WSM, but most have held together. I've usually coolered them from 2 to 4 hours. I've been lucky and have had maybe a couple that seemed a little mushy.
How could I go wrong with all the good advice I've gotten here?
I found the topic interesting and thought I'd bring it up for conversation and enlightenment.
Rita
How could I go wrong with all the good advice I've gotten here?
I found the topic interesting and thought I'd bring it up for conversation and enlightenment.
Rita
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
Sounds good to me, Rita, and there is definately a window of forgiveness with the butts and residual cooking. As for the mushiness issue, since I don't wrap butts til after the cook if holding, I had completely forgotten about the mushiness you can get from doing as Kevin mentioned by cooking in foil with liquids. Maybe some like that really soft texture, but I think the flavor of the pork can be watered down and the bark...well, what bark?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K Kruger:
Additional moisture, something butts don't really need. Injections, foiling during cooking (preventing drippings), adding liquids to the foil during resting - these sorts of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
X2
I speak from trial and error... only times I've had issues with this is with either injections or wrapping in foil after the cook.
Additional moisture, something butts don't really need. Injections, foiling during cooking (preventing drippings), adding liquids to the foil during resting - these sorts of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
X2
I speak from trial and error... only times I've had issues with this is with either injections or wrapping in foil after the cook.
Dave Russell
TVWBB Honor Circle
AFTER the cook?
A long rest in foil will definately affect the bark's texture, but I don't think holding an hour or two in foil is too big a deal, especially if tented a few minutes at first to let the IT drop a bit. Love it practically off the pit, though.
A long rest in foil will definately affect the bark's texture, but I don't think holding an hour or two in foil is too big a deal, especially if tented a few minutes at first to let the IT drop a bit. Love it practically off the pit, though.
Chris E
TVWBB Pro
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
Chris, just to be clear: my point was that meat drippings come from meat that's cooking. If the butts aren't truly tender yet and you wrap hot in foil, drippings left in the foil are to be expected because the meat needed to cook more. I'm just trying to differentiate "resting" (where residual cooking is minimized) and holding hot so that the meat keeps on cooking, albeit at a slower rate. It's a variable I'd rather not introduce, but a lot of folks cook to 190*, hold hot for several hours, and then are happy with the results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As a followup the butts I did on HH came out very tasty but the bark definitely was not as crispy as usual. I don't use sugar so I don't get a lot of carmelization normally anyway.
I wanted to try the HH butt method since I have had some success with hh brisket. Next time I'll probably do more like the 3-2-1 rib method and pull the butts out of foil for the last hour to improve on the bark texture.
I have to say overnight butts are pretty fool-proof compared to brisket so the HH gives me an option if I wake up in the morning and want pulled pork for dinner I can pull it off.
Great thread!
Chris, just to be clear: my point was that meat drippings come from meat that's cooking. If the butts aren't truly tender yet and you wrap hot in foil, drippings left in the foil are to be expected because the meat needed to cook more. I'm just trying to differentiate "resting" (where residual cooking is minimized) and holding hot so that the meat keeps on cooking, albeit at a slower rate. It's a variable I'd rather not introduce, but a lot of folks cook to 190*, hold hot for several hours, and then are happy with the results. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As a followup the butts I did on HH came out very tasty but the bark definitely was not as crispy as usual. I don't use sugar so I don't get a lot of carmelization normally anyway.
I wanted to try the HH butt method since I have had some success with hh brisket. Next time I'll probably do more like the 3-2-1 rib method and pull the butts out of foil for the last hour to improve on the bark texture.
I have to say overnight butts are pretty fool-proof compared to brisket so the HH gives me an option if I wake up in the morning and want pulled pork for dinner I can pull it off.
Great thread!
So, I've got two 8-9 lb butts in my fridge ready to rub and cook Friday night through Sat morning. I plan on cooking and then hand pulling the pork once cooled. Is there any difference between foiling it for a few hours to cool down, or should I just let it rest tented with foil? I've noticed in the past that while it's good after it's been foiled for a few hours, sometimes it doesn't have the texture as I'd like it to be, so I spritz the pulled pork with apple cider before sealign it the same afternoon. I've been pulling it at 190 but didn't know if it should go up to 195-200 or if that might constitute as overcooked and either make it mushy or dry....
I myself do not like to foil unless I have too. If it is close to done way ahead of your party, it is ok to foil and keep in a cooler with towels around it to keep it hot. However you will lose the bark on the outside. It will still be good, just not AS good. I guess it is up to the person himself to decide.
Dan Krause
TVWBB Fan
I have the same sentiment as Dean, no foil for pulled pork for me. I cook my pork at 250-275F till it is done. I like the fairly thick and crusty bark on my pulled pork, and I think foiling ruins the bark.
On the flip side I do foil my ribs and brisket.
With ribs it is smoked unfoild for a couple of hours, then foiled till done, lightly sauced and then onto a high heat grill to set the the sauce.
Brisket has such a long cook time, that I use foil to cut down on the cook time and to help retain moisture. Brisket starts off unfoiled for about 8 hours'ish, foiled for about 4 hours'ish, and then unfoiled again for an hour or two.
On the flip side I do foil my ribs and brisket.
With ribs it is smoked unfoild for a couple of hours, then foiled till done, lightly sauced and then onto a high heat grill to set the the sauce.
Brisket has such a long cook time, that I use foil to cut down on the cook time and to help retain moisture. Brisket starts off unfoiled for about 8 hours'ish, foiled for about 4 hours'ish, and then unfoiled again for an hour or two.
As a KCBS CBJ, I find that pork butt is the most inconsistent of the four categories in texture.
My completely unscientific and unsubstantiated theory is that the majority of these butts in competetion come off the cooker perfectly done, and than are sat in a cooler for xxx time until the box is built and turn in is made. I believe that the butts continue to cook in the cooler and become mushy.
This has been my single largest disappointment since I first started judging the past two years. In eight contests, I do not believe that I have had one truly excellent piece of pork butt.
Best Regards,
My completely unscientific and unsubstantiated theory is that the majority of these butts in competetion come off the cooker perfectly done, and than are sat in a cooler for xxx time until the box is built and turn in is made. I believe that the butts continue to cook in the cooler and become mushy.
This has been my single largest disappointment since I first started judging the past two years. In eight contests, I do not believe that I have had one truly excellent piece of pork butt.
Best Regards,
K Kruger
TVWBB 1-Star Olympian
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe that the butts continue to cook in the cooler and become mushy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They do, albeit more slowly as time passes. Too, many teams inject, adding what can be too much moisture, especially when coupled with excessive holding.
They do, albeit more slowly as time passes. Too, many teams inject, adding what can be too much moisture, especially when coupled with excessive holding.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dave Russell:
AFTER the cook?
A long rest in foil will definately affect the bark's texture, but I don't think holding an hour or two in foil is too big a deal, especially if tented a few minutes at first to let the IT drop a bit. Love it practically off the pit, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes after. I have never overcooked a non injected butt while on a cooker. It was fine when I pulled it, wrapped it in foil for too long and it got mushy. Yes I cook a lot of butt.
AFTER the cook?
A long rest in foil will definately affect the bark's texture, but I don't think holding an hour or two in foil is too big a deal, especially if tented a few minutes at first to let the IT drop a bit. Love it practically off the pit, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes after. I have never overcooked a non injected butt while on a cooker. It was fine when I pulled it, wrapped it in foil for too long and it got mushy. Yes I cook a lot of butt.